FreewayTalk

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Joe Billings

4 Jul 2016, 2:14 pm

Fin

To all our friends, partners and customers:

The end of Softpress Systems Ltd. has come. It has become clear that our prospects, both in terms of current revenue and new product development, are insufficient to sustain the company as a viable entity going forward.

It is with great sadness that we have made this decision; Softpress has been a part of our lives for over two decades. The challenges that we have overcome, the friendships we have found, and the daily efforts we have shared as a team, have defined much of our lives since 1993. Some of our team have been “on duty” here at Softpress Towers since the beginning.

We will do our best to ensure that users can get community support in the short term through FreewayTalk, though there are no plans to further develop our products at this time. Customer downloads will continue to be available.

We wish we could do more. Who knows what comes next?

Thank you for your support over these many years.

For the whole of the Softpress Team,

Richard Logan and Joe Billings

Joe Billings

Freeway & Exhibeo: Visual web design apps for Mac


http://www.softpress.com

max

4 Jul 2016, 2:45 pm

This is a very VERY sad day ive been using freeway since it came out and I still use it everyday. its been my tool of choice for all that time. I hope there is a way forward, but I suspect the community wont actualy put there hands into there pockets to make that happen. If that couldn’t happen then some other way forward may be found even if the application could be made free to download. At least the community could carry on for some preiod of time .

If not then it will be a big blow to all those people who rely on it. kindest regards from a very down in the dumps max

it’s better to be lucky than clever.. :o)

Andries Kuipers

4 Jul 2016, 2:48 pm

I’m very sorry for Softpress to read this Joe. I’ve used Freeway since version 3 and still using. I want to thank you for all your effort for making Freeway for what it is nowadays. All the best for you and your team. Andries Op 4 jul. 2016 16:14 schreef “Joe Billings” <[email protected]>:

To all our friends, partners and customers:

The end of Softpress Systems Ltd. has come. It has become clear that our prospects, both in terms of current revenue and new product development, are insufficient to sustain the company as a viable entity going forward.

It is with great sadness that we have made this decision; Softpress has been a part of our lives for over two decades. The challenges that we have overcome, the friendships we have found, and the daily efforts we have shared as a team, have defined much of our lives since 1993. Some of our team have been “on duty” here at Softpress Towers since the beginning.

We will do our best to ensure that users can get community support in the short term through FreewayTalk, though there are no plans to further develop our products at this time. Customer downloads will continue to be available.

We wish we could do more. Who knows what comes next?

Thank you for your support over these many years.

For the whole of the Softpress Team,

Richard Logan and Joe Billings

Tom Byrne

4 Jul 2016, 2:55 pm

I’m really sorry to see you go. It’s been 14 years since I began using this application and have told lots of people about it. I literally logged on to get support for a missing serial number when I saw the message.

Leif H. S.

4 Jul 2016, 3:10 pm

So sad. And a little bit shocked. I mourn with you. Leif

On 4 Jul 2016, at 16:15, Joe Billings wrote:

To all our friends, partners and customers:

The end of Softpress Systems Ltd. has come. It has become clear that our prospects, both in terms of current revenue and new product development, are insufficient to sustain the company as a viable entity going forward.

It is with great sadness that we have made this decision; Softpress has been a part of our lives for over two decades. The challenges that we have overcome, the friendships we have found, and the daily efforts we have shared as a team, have defined much of our lives since 1993. Some of our team have been “on duty” here at Softpress Towers since the beginning.

We will do our best to ensure that users can get community support in the short term through FreewayTalk, though there are no plans to further develop our products at this time. Customer downloads will continue to be available.

We wish we could do more. Who knows what comes next?

Thank you for your support over these many years.

For the whole of the Softpress Team,

Richard Logan and Joe Billings

PixelsArts

4 Jul 2016, 3:16 pm

Hasta la vista amigo!

A blow over the years have used this tool as one of the supports of my design studio I have clients and projects in development. But best of all was the team of Softpress that was always present in support. Thank you

Gordon Low

4 Jul 2016, 3:17 pm

Very sad news indeed. I’ve been a Freeway user since the (original) version 3 and will honestly struggle to find anything even faintly comparable. Mightn’t it be possible for Walter to resume the hosting of FreewayTalk even in the short term?

Thanks for everyone at Softpress and here’s hoping the Freeway community will continue for as long as the software can continue to be persuaded to “just work”.

Gordon http://www.gordonlow.com/

waltd

4 Jul 2016, 3:21 pm

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for building a ladder to the stars. Freeway, to some extent, and the community around it, largely, have been responsible for my growth as an artist and technician and teacher. I would not be where I am today without it, and all of you.

Richard Logan, who was one of my anchor clients when I (forcibly) went freelance in 2002… thank you again.

All of you in Oxford, past and present, who had the audacity to make WYSIWYG a non-dirty word in Web design… thank you again. I learned a lot of HTML by dissecting the output of Freeway, starting with version 1.

ActionsForge will remain “on the air” as long as it continues to attract an audience. It does not cost very much for me to keep it running. If I ever take it down, I will post a static archive on Github or similar, so it can live on on someone else’s nickel.

It’s going to take a while for this to sink in, I’m sure I’ll have more to say later.

Walter

On Jul 4, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Joe Billings <[email protected]> wrote:

To all our friends, partners and customers:

The end of Softpress Systems Ltd. has come. It has become clear that our prospects, both in terms of current revenue and new product development, are insufficient to sustain the company as a viable entity going forward.

It is with great sadness that we have made this decision; Softpress has been a part of our lives for over two decades. The challenges that we have overcome, the friendships we have found, and the daily efforts we have shared as a team, have defined much of our lives since 1993. Some of our team have been “on duty” here at Softpress Towers since the beginning.

We will do our best to ensure that users can get community support in the short term through FreewayTalk, though there are no plans to further develop our products at this time. Customer downloads will continue to be available.

We wish we could do more. Who knows what comes next?

Thank you for your support over these many years.

For the whole of the Softpress Team,

Richard Logan and Joe Billings

Freeway user since 1997

http://www.walterdavisstudio.com

Tom Byrne

4 Jul 2016, 3:36 pm

I know this comes at a difficult time for you but I’m looking for some tech support. My computer was destroyed last week and I logged on this Saturday to retrieve Freeway Pro and my serial number. Obviously I haven’t gotten a reply and the serial number that I have is only for version 5 of Freeway.

I tried using my backed up version of Freeway but it won’t activate without the serial number and I don’t know where that sort of thing is stored on the system of a backup.

This is pretty serious for me. Is there anyway to get the serial number for version 7 back?

Joe Billings

4 Jul 2016, 3:42 pm

Hi Tom,

If you email [email protected] using the email address you purchased with you will get an automated reply with your serial number in it.

Thanks everyone else for the kind words.

Joe On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 at 4:36 pm, Tom Byrne <[email protected]> wrote:

I know this comes at a difficult time for you but I’m looking for some tech support. My computer was destroyed last week and I logged on this Saturday to retrieve Freeway Pro and my serial number. Obviously I haven’t gotten a reply and the serial number that I have is only for version 5 of Freeway.

I tried using my backed up version of Freeway but it won’t activate without the serial number and I don’t know where that sort of thing is stored on the system of a backup.

This is pretty serious for me. Is there anyway to get the serial number for version 7 back?

Joe Billings

Freeway & Exhibeo: Visual web design apps for Mac


http://www.softpress.com

Tim Plumb

4 Jul 2016, 3:55 pm

Oh that’s a tough one. I could handle the loss at football, half of parliament going and the EU exit (at a push) but this is a bit much.

Oh well, it’s been emotional and I’d just like to wish everyone over at Softpress the very best for the future. You’re a bright bunch and I suspect have many more strings to your collective bows.

I’d be interested to know what the exit plans are as I’m sure there is life in this old community still. As someone who’s been close to the action (literally) since 1999 I’m keen to see something emerge from this. All the very best, Tim.

On 4 Jul 2016, at 15:15, Joe Billings <[email protected]> wrote:

To all our friends, partners and customers:

The end of Softpress Systems Ltd. has come. It has become clear that our prospects, both in terms of current revenue and new product development, are insufficient to sustain the company as a viable entity going forward.

It is with great sadness that we have made this decision; Softpress has been a part of our lives for over two decades. The challenges that we have overcome, the friendships we have found, and the daily efforts we have shared as a team, have defined much of our lives since 1993. Some of our team have been “on duty” here at Softpress Towers since the beginning.

We will do our best to ensure that users can get community support in the short term through FreewayTalk, though there are no plans to further develop our products at this time. Customer downloads will continue to be available.

We wish we could do more. Who knows what comes next?

Thank you for your support over these many years.

For the whole of the Softpress Team,

Richard Logan and Joe Billings

Tim Plumb - Experienced Freeway designer for hire

FreewayActions.com - Freeware and commercial Actions for Freeway Express & Pro

FreewayStyle.com - Free Freeway templates and parts to download, use and explore

Leif H. S.

4 Jul 2016, 4:19 pm

On 4 Jul 2016, at 17:41, Joe Billings wrote:

Thanks everyone else for the kind words.

Is this outcome (also) related to changes that the upcoming macOS Sierra is introducing? leif halvard silli

Paul

4 Jul 2016, 4:22 pm

I’m shocked. I’ve been using Freeway since betas of version 1, and I genuinely thought it would be around for many years to come. I’ve had Softpress as a part of my life for, what, 19 years - both as a user and an employee (on and off).

Like Walter, this will take some time to sink in. I’ll probably have more to say in a while, but for now I’m very sad that this decision has had to be made.

All the best,

Paul

My Actions Site: http://www.actionsworld.com

Actions for Galleries, decorating that text box and many more!

Chod Lang

4 Jul 2016, 4:32 pm

So sorry to read this news. I’ve been away from Freeway (and site building in general for a while). I’m 6 months from retirement and was really looking forward to getting back into web design with the best program I’ve ever used. But…everything does come to an end eventually. Wish all the people at Softpress the very best. I just hope I’m not to old to learn new tricks?

And here’s a quote for all that I’ve been relying on for the past few months. “I thought getting old would take longer!”

All the best to all.

Chod Lang in New Jersey (retiring to Portugal)

Justin Easthall

4 Jul 2016, 5:59 pm

Sad. Freeway helped me as with many, many, others move from DTP to web publishing. It was an awesome tool to accomplish this. So I thank all the softpress team and their amazing customer service. THANK YOU.

sonjanna

4 Jul 2016, 6:54 pm

Dear Joe, wow this is a shock!

I am certain you have massive reasons. But this is a sad day for us all.

Freeway was the main tool to start my professionell business as grafic- and webdesigner with FW 3.5 many years ago. As non native english speaker being from Germany it was not easy at the beginning to get in to it. But through your support, the FW website, the wonderful community I made it.

I have met many good and helpful people, I have met Thomas Kimmich also 10 years ago and because he is german too, we exchanged a lot since then via telephone. I follow the postings on a daily basis and although the „meetings“ are not live - we all sit alone in front of our descs - it feels like a big family, Max, Tim, Dave, Walter, Ernie, Richard, Caleb, Todd and many others has become familiar to me, I am more a reader than a writer though. We lived and shared the ups and downs, didn`t we?

Thank you so much Joe and the Softpressteam, your work has been more than great!

Now 10 years later after the start of my design studio I am responsible for a big bunch of clients, 95% of them with websites I made with FW and which I still update on a regular basis. It is my business I rely on for a living! And this is eventually true for many of us. The news unsettle and worry me to be honest.

• How long will I be able to update my clients websites when FW is not further developed? • Does that mean I have to learn painfully another application? (I would not know which.) • How can I explain this to my clients? • I am afraid that there will be a mountain of (perhaps unpaid) work because I cannot let my clients down.

Possibly these questions resume from the first shock and will be eventually answered…

But I cannot believe this and I hope from the bottom of my heart that there is way that this application will still be alive in the future. Not only for me but for all of us!

Hanna

german web/designer

Paul

4 Jul 2016, 7:12 pm

My initial thoughts are not to upgrade your Macs to Sierra until someone knowns that it will continue to work. You don’t HAVE to upgrade the OS on your Macs, you know ;-)

Another strategy would be to create a virtual machine (using VirtualBox - https://www.virtualbox.org - or similar) with Freeway on it, and keep that for any web work if moving to a new version of macOS is vital for other activities you have.

Freeway will continue to work if you have a machine that it will work on. It just won”t get any new updates, bug fixes, etc.. So your short to mid-term use of the application is assured if you adopted a preservation strategy.

You will need to start considering what application to move to in your post-Freeway future, and transition projects to that.

All the best,

Paul

My Actions Site: http://www.actionsworld.com

Actions for Galleries, decorating that text box and many more!

Richard van Heukelum

4 Jul 2016, 7:55 pm

I’m sad to learn about the passing away of such a powerful and absolutely promising piece of software. Underestimated as it was, it had a lot of work to be done to even compete with the apps of today … let’s be honest. But I’d would have seen rather see Freeway on top, the support and the community itself is in a league of it’s own.

I’m shocked, yet not surprised.

Richard

Ontwerpzaam.nl | Papendrecht, The Netherlands

Hardware: 27” iMac i5 3.1GHz / 32GB RAM / 4TB SSHD / 1GB VRAM /

Software : macOS 10.12.6 Sierra / Freeway7 (user since Freeway1)

Has moved on with CoffeeCup Software : CSS Grid Builder / Site Designer v3 / Form Designer / Responsive Foundation Framer / Responsive Bootstrap Builder / Responsive Content Slider / Responsive Email Designer / Color Palette Manager / Sonar / Website Insight and occasionally Blocs Web Design App. Use CraftCMS.

[email protected]

4 Jul 2016, 8:22 pm

Let me add to the general dismay and say, that I for one, am perfectly happy to buy FW7 again at full price if there’s any way to turn this around. I’m devastated.

sonjanna

4 Jul 2016, 8:26 pm

Me too, David!

Hanna

german web/designer

[email protected]

4 Jul 2016, 8:46 pm

Can we get some kind of pledge going here? Joe, what do you need. you have the love, tell us the hard facts. Can we, your loyal community, do something to pull this together?

Todd

4 Jul 2016, 8:51 pm

The People of Softpress:

Like so many users Freeway Pro was my gateway application into building websites, some 14 years past, amazingly. Despite having quickly outgrown it about a decade ago my frustrations nevertheless set in motion a desire to learn more about those aspects FW kept hidden. So even though FWP wasn’t a good fit for me a handful of people from your community have consistently inspired me to grow and explore, even if that very encouragement ultimately took me away to greener fields.

I can’t truthfully say this news comes as a surprise, I absolutely know some of us saw it coming for a long time, but I nevertheless feel a twinge of sadness. By any measure Softpress had a good run, but it’s not all bad.

While we may be saying goodbye to Softpress and Freeway the people behind the product aren’t disappearing anytime soon. Change may be difficult and scary but it’s also good. Personally I’m excited for the people of Softpress, new opportunities await and I for one am curious to see where these talented people end up. For me it’s not so much goodbye but rather, “See you ’round the (virtual) water cooler”.

My best to all of you.

Todd Office (Chicago): 312.212.3955 https://qreativ.space

Stephen G

4 Jul 2016, 8:59 pm

I had to sign up for a new account to post this. I echo the kind sentiments and general sadness put forth here by others.

Freeway has been a reliable and delightful software to use for me from version 3.5 on OS 9 all the way to 7.1.3 today.

I wish there was something that could be done to keep the Freeway Pro platform moving forward. It is with great sadness that I have seen so many creative, friendly communities like the Freeway community shrivel up over the years as everything becomes more modern, fast paced, and automatic (for better or for worse).

Best wishes to all reading this.

chuckamuck

4 Jul 2016, 9:46 pm

Like so many others I am sad to see this day come, though not entirely surprised. I’ve got a lot of respect for Softpress keeping Freeway alive as long as they have. Maybe some third party will find Freeway an interesting takeover prospect?

Freeway was not my first platform for learning web design but was certainly the one I invested the most time into. It gave me access to this fabulous community of helpful and considerate users and developers who many times went out of their way to help me solve problems for no other reason than having asked. I did my best to be helpful in this community where I could in return and found personal satisfaction in that as well. All of you I have communicated with over the years have enriched my life immensely.

It is always sad when things come to an end. But change always brings something better eventually.

I wish all those at Softpress the best of luck moving forward.

Freeway Pro 7, i7 Macbook Pro 2.2 ghz 8gb ram, 2.3 ghz Dual Core MacPro 10gb ram

Jim Feeney

4 Jul 2016, 10:41 pm

Blessings to you, Joe, and to the staff. May great things happen to each of you.

Thanks for 12 years’ worth of helping this elderly amateur (since v. 3.5) put out a website that has kept me happily busy over those years. Your tech support, and that of this forum’s members, has been a great help to me. Thank you!

Oregon, USA | 2017 iMac 21.5” | 3.6 GHz Intel Core i7 | 16 GB RAM | OS 10.13.6 | User since Fwy 3.5 | https://www.jimfeeney.org

DeltaDave

5 Jul 2016, 1:07 am

Just back from a trip to Madeira tonight to log on to FWT and be met by this totally unexpected post.

Like everyone else I am shocked/surprised by the announcement.

I too have been a very long term user of FW, Richard sold me my first copy way back when.

I have dabbled with others and never really found the synergy I have with FW.

While I am happy to work under the hood to twist FW to my bidding I did always seek features that weren’t forthcoming from SP - however as long as I have a Mac that can run FW7 I suspect it will remain a major tool for me.

Over the years I have supported the FW community with answers (and questions) for fellow FW Talkers - I will do my best to continue that support.

D

Glasgow, Scotland

iMac 27 5K El Cap and Pro Final

Tom Byrne

5 Jul 2016, 1:43 am

Thanks Joe. I managed to figure out how to copy the preferences from by backup to activate version 7.

I will use Freeway until it just doesn’t work anymore. It’s tragic that the program didn’t reach the critical mass you needed and I will miss it when it finally gives up the ghost.

Good luck to you in whatever creative endeavors you pursue.

Tom

Jim Feeney

5 Jul 2016, 4:08 am

I will be interested in hearing, after some of you advanced users check it out, how Fwy Pro 7 works on the upcoming macOS Sierra. I’m hoping that there will be no problems.

Oregon, USA | 2017 iMac 21.5” | 3.6 GHz Intel Core i7 | 16 GB RAM | OS 10.13.6 | User since Fwy 3.5 | https://www.jimfeeney.org

Noel Sergeant

5 Jul 2016, 6:33 am

This has hit me more than the Brexit vote! So sad to hear this news. This is the only software that I really connect with and also has an amazing community of other, very helpful, users. Is there anything that can be done?

Say it ain’t so, Joe. I wish you and your team all the very best and thank you for everything.

JDW

5 Jul 2016, 9:28 am

It is impossible to adequately express what I am feeling right now. In light of what Freeway has been to countless web designers worldwide through the years, this news truly cuts to the heart. It is a day of tremendous sadness, not merely over the loss of a phenomenal software product but also because the brilliant team who gave it life will now disband.

To Richard Logan, Joe Billings, Jeremy Hughes, Simon Manning, Stewart Fellows, Anna Henderson, and the rest of the amazing SoftPress team, with a humble and sincere heart I wish to say THANK YOU for making the world a better place. Your work made a huge dent in my universe, for the better.

James Wages

Leif H. S.

5 Jul 2016, 10:07 am

On 5 Jul 2016, at 6:08, Jim Feeney wrote:

I will be interested in hearing, after some of you advanced users check it out, how Fwy Pro 7 works on the upcoming macOS Sierra. I’m hoping that there will be no problems.

Indeed.

macOS Sierra disables QuickTime by default (in Safari) and it introduces a new file system - plus, in general, that Apple tries to enforce developers to via App Store and the sandbox/security settings of the system to enforce the way they want applications to work.

Hence I am suspicious that Freeway may not work in Sierra. leif halvard silli

Joe Muscara

5 Jul 2016, 12:41 pm

Freeway has been a part of my life and career for… 20 years or so since I started using it for the Alsoft web site. I remember being so taken with that when I found out it existed, I wanted UniQorn, too.

Freeway allowed me to start my own web development business after I left that job.

I loved what Freeway let me do. I loved that I didn’t have to deal with the code that was the same every time, and not only could I focus on my design, but I could focus on my code bits as well. This resulted in my Actions for miniCMS, pMachine, and ExpressionEngine.

I loved how responsive and supportive Softpress has been throughout the years, and I loved being able to help promote Softpress among users here in the U.S. I loved getting to meet some of the Softpress team in at MWSF, as well as some of the other users at MWSF and MWNY.

Thank you Joe, Richard, everyone still and previously at Softpress for what you did for us. And thanks to the wider user community for keeping Freeway going for so long. There are still many of you active here whom I met online when I was more active in web development, and this community was my water cooler for those years, before the rise of social media.

Best wishes to you all. May your futures continue to be bright.

Jeremy Hughes

5 Jul 2016, 1:28 pm

On 5 Jul 2016, at 11:06, Leif Halvard Silli <[email protected]> wrote:

Hence I am suspicious that Freeway may not work in Sierra.

Not an official Softpress response, but Freeway works fine in the developer preview of Sierra.

Jeremy

hsakols

5 Jul 2016, 1:42 pm

I’m so sad to hear the news. Yes, for us non developers there is a bit of a learning curve but I found the product to be worth the effort because the support was so good. I was hoping this summer to clean up my personal site which I still will do. However, I’m not sure what I will use in the future. Times are a changing and not always for the best. Thank you to the Freeway crew and good luck with your future.

Hugh Sakols www.yosemitecollection.com

www.yosemitecollection.com

Leif H. S.

5 Jul 2016, 5:11 pm

On 5 Jul 2016, at 15:28, Jeremy Hughes wrote:

On 5 Jul 2016, at 11:06, Leif Halvard Silli <[email protected]> wrote:

Hence I am suspicious that Freeway may not work in Sierra.

Not an official Softpress response, but Freeway works fine in the developer preview of Sierra.

Well that’s good. So «Who knows what comes next?» Hope the can be a way to «restructure» … leif halvard silli

John Robinson

5 Jul 2016, 7:06 pm

Truly saddened to see this. Been out for the US holidays. A big Thank You to all of the Freeway team. Where to turn. This program was my right hand man for all my web work. Would be curious as to what the other Pro’s are going to do with this loss. Never been a big fan of WP but it looks like that is the route I may have to go. I will use Freeway until I can’t but it looks like it’s back to school again. Thanks to everyone for there support over the years. John

OmarKN

5 Jul 2016, 9:15 pm

On 4 Jul 2016, 3:16 pm, PixelsArts wrote:

Hasta la vista amigo!

A blow over the years have used this tool as one of the supports of my design studio I have clients and projects in development. But best of all was the team of Softpress that was always present in support. Thank you

SAME HERE / I agree !!!

iMac 27” i5 (2015); MacOS 10.11.x, FRW Pro 7.x, Graphic 3.0, GraphicConverter9, xScope, Sparkle 2.2

Stockholm, Sweden

………………………………………………..

James Davies

5 Jul 2016, 11:18 pm

Very sad news.

Being an ex-employee of Softpress, Freeway was a very big part of my life for quite a while. I remember seeing alphas of Freeway 1 from afar and then became involved more directly with Freeway 2 onwards as part of the testing team. Also worked on the Softpress website for a while. I think I left Softpress after 8 years in 2006.

Since 2006 I have not really kept up with Softpress and Freeway so this comes as a surprise to me.

I would love to see somebody write a history of Freeway and Softpress, as I expect there’s enough for a book. I also genuinely think Softpress has a small place in Apple history. I read one of the many books about Apple history some years ago and remember thinking that Softpress should really get a mention, in particular when talking about Freeway’s ancestor, Uniqorn and it’s font technology.

Softpress also sent me all over the place demoing Freeway at trade shows like MacWorld. I visited San Francisco 5-6 times over the years, Japan once (hello James Wages), Stockholm, New York and Paris.

I have some amazing memories with Softpress. Highlights include:

• Demoing Freeway to Mac OS X engineers at Cupertino. This was in the very early days of Mac OS X. During the demo, one of the engineers joked about how Mac OS X had loads less features than Mac OS 9 despite all the time and money they’d spent on it.

• Demoing to an Apple executive “behind the scenes” at MacWorld Paris. Apple iWeb appeared not too long afterwards.

• Demoing to some high-up Microsoft exec and spending half the time criticising MS software without realising who I was demoing to.

• Japan! I’ll never forget it. We were in a city some 4-5 hours outside Tokyo. Loved every minute and I still want to go back.

• For a while, Softpress was based at Richard’s house. That was weird! I expect it was very hard for the family too.

There are so many other memories that…er…I can’t remember right now.

Oh yes – the crunch periods before Freeway release dates. Working from 9am till 11pm or later to meat deadlines. I’m not sure customers ever got to see this side of things. They would sometimes last for months at a time.

I must thank Richard and Softpress for the opportunity I was given. I travelled the world. Learnt so much. Met amazing friends who are still friends today. Slingshot me into another job (that’s a story by itself) in Central London that I’ll also never forget.

Adiós!

JDW

6 Jul 2016, 12:30 am

James Davies,

You and I became friends at that Macworld. Thank you for remaining a friend all these years.

I still remember using PowerGlot to translate the Freeway 3 UI into Japanese, and working hard with my associate here in Japan to translate all the documentation. The really knock-em-dead feature at those old Macworlds was the fact Freeway could switch languages on the fly, which was no small task for OS 9 (pre OS X MacOS), and as far as I know, only Quark Xpress had it at the time. (Today we take such for granted in OS X.) You can still read on article on that at Tidbits (scroll down to “Smooth Operators” — indicates I actually did something right at that show!):

https://tidbits.com/static/html/TidBITS-570.html#lnk2

Here are a few ancient Macworld Tokyo photos (you’ll need QT Player 7 to view the VR *.mov file):

Macworld Tokyo 2000 (outside, with Freeway Actions author Alan Shouls and me in leather): http://cl.ly/3I2z2g1t3o3P/James-Alan-Amaki-MacworldTokyo2000.jpg

Macworld Tokyo 2001 (QTVR download): http://cl.ly/2J0M3f3L3j0y/download/MacworldTokyo2001_FreewayBooth_QTVR.mov

Here’s a still of the VR, for those without QT7 (me at left, James Davies sitting at center, and my business associates at right):

http://cl.ly/180v2H0o2R3k/MacworldTokyo2001_QTVR-Still.jpg

I was also blessed with the opportunity to visit Oxford and SoftPress a couple times back in those days. I’ll never forgot the lunch conversation we had. We were having sandwiches at SoftPress and Richard Logan asks me which part of the bread I want. Me being an American said, “the heel.” Everyone at the table lifted their voices almost to a scream saying, “Oooooooh! The Heeeeeeel!” Followed by Trash vs. Rubbish, and so forth. My those were good times!

My love affair with Freeway began in 1999 and I’ve been captivated by her and her designers since. I must say I didn’t sleep well last night. I really am brokenhearted knowing SoftPress is signing off. May the SoftPress team be blessed with even greener pastures henceforth.

Best wishes,

James Wages

Paul

7 Jul 2016, 8:41 am

I guess that no one will have any objections if I did out the Freeway Moments I made a few years back and lob them on to YouTube. I know they are old, and were never updated for more recent versions of Freeway, but seeing as though the site has been taken down, it’s probably a good idea if stuff like this were relocated elsewhere for the time being.

I see that the Knowledge Base is still active, but you have to get to it direct. https://www.softpress.com/kb/

All the best,

Paul

My Actions Site: http://www.actionsworld.com

Actions for Galleries, decorating that text box and many more!

max

7 Jul 2016, 9:27 am

I was thinking the same paul… and I can’t see why there should be any objections

max

it’s better to be lucky than clever.. :o)

Dave Dunning

7 Jul 2016, 9:55 am

Gutted!

What a sad day, Freeway has helped a non-coder to build websites and in the process start to learn HTML, CSS and Javascript. It will continue to be my go-to app for creating sites as it allows me to tinker under the hood in a way that alternative apps don’t. Coupled with this outstanding support network it has been a pleasure (and a frustration at times!) to use and I wish Joe, Richard and the team all the best for the future.

Dave

The Big Erns

7 Jul 2016, 5:56 pm

My initial reaction to the news was not sadness… instead, I find myself to be quite relieved.

From my point of view, a long battle has finally ended… regardless of the outcome, I no longer need to spend any more time or treasure, or energy— fighting for my ideas or to convince anyone here of… well, anything, really.

A better way to develop Freeway? Over. A better way to use Freeway? Done with, all gone.

Well, not all gone. I will leave here with far more than I came with— Freeway was my crutch, but this forum was the physical therapy that helped me develop my Web Designer legs. I’ll be able to walk out of here under my own power, thanks to the many contributions of other battlefield friends.

Like it or not, the future is clearer now. A weight has lifted and I am unburdened… of everything except for gratitude for all I have learned and become. For life beyond Freeway.

no longer subscribed to this discussion…

JT

7 Jul 2016, 9:55 pm

Evening Joe,

The sad news has been slowly filtering out that the party’s over, I’m terribly sorry to hear it as a fan of this brilliant software. I hope nobody pissed in the kitchen bin which is always a post party speciality… we probably go to different parties.

It pains me to say this, especially as the gang of pricks at Adobe have adopted it as their business model, however would a subscription model be tenable? I for one would subscribe to keep things going and it would allow a projection of income for whatever guise softpress would adopt next? I’m sure others feel the same, and wouldn’t reflect negatively as in the case of Adobe as Softpress is liked.

Is there an option for the software to continue as open source?

Has crowd funding been considered?

Are you offering the opportunity to side grade with a partner?

I’d check that bin.

JT

Doty

7 Jul 2016, 11:22 pm

Thanks for posting this, Paul. I’ve was wondering…

On 7 Jul 2016, 8:41 am, Paul wrote:

I see that the Knowledge Base is still active, but you have to get to it direct. https://www.softpress.com/kb/

Colorado Mountains, USA

FreeWay Pro FW 7.1.2 | MacBook Pro El Capitan

http://www.dotyshepard.com

JDW

8 Jul 2016, 12:17 am

JT, I doubt SoftPress would have closed its doors so formally if they imagined a subscription model would sustain them. There are no doubt other engineering issues too that we know nothing of, seeing Freeway is still an old carbon based app built upon the MacApp framework. It would truly take a fairly large engineering team well versed in modern coding standards to move Freeway a huge leap forward. And that is why it has been my hope over the past year (secretly, in my heart) that some merger or buyout or deal could be struck between SoftPress and Serif, maker of the amazing Affinity apps. Serif is on the fast track to kick serious Adobe fanny, and adding a powerful web design tool to their collection would be yet more icing on the cake.

Consider well what Serif have already (which sadly, for now anyway, is only for mock ups):

https://vimeo.com/169816724

Immediately upon seeing that video I wrote them to suggest they take it further, toward full blown HTML output. My lone voice won’t mean much unless the rest of you join in, so here’s their contact info:

http://www.serif.com/contactus.aspx

https://www.facebook.com/MacAffinity

I’ve purchased both Affinity Designer and Photo, and while I don’t use them full time yet because they haven’t yet replaced Photoshop and Illustrator, I contribute feedback toward making that happen.

If there was a way to keep Freeway alive AND advancing (finally prying it off MacApp and on to modern coding standards, Retina facelift, Responsive design for dummies like me that doesn’t involve stupid templates) then I agree we should be fighting to keep it alive. But not seeing that happen, I myself must now explore other avenues.

I am aware of RapidWeaver and Stacks, and I had a detailed look at both recently and found that combo seriously lacking. It’s no Freeway replacement, believe me. And nothing else out there really compares to Freeway either That has been true since Freeway’s inception, which is what brought me to SoftPress in the first place.

That’s why I see Serif as the lone company out there who has the engineering capacity to get a web design tool created. Where there’s a will there’s a way. So it’s all a matter of inspiring that will in them.

Best wishes,

James Wages

Justin Easthall

8 Jul 2016, 12:33 am

@James I totally disagree RW is one of the best WYSWYG web design tools out there (I have worked with both FW & RW for years now). And before everyone shots me down (I know you will as a few on here have an unnatural hate towards RW). I would like to see these amazing FW built websites - please? Then Ill happily admit I was wrong.

JDW

8 Jul 2016, 12:44 am

Rapid Weaper lovers are as stubborn a bunch of designers as we die-hard Freeway users are! There’s not convincing of either camp. But let me tell you flat out that my brain works different. I never created a full blow Responsive site in Freeway because I am not as brilliant as Thomas and Ernie and countless others here who have been brilliantly successful with that. Nor have I ever found Rapid Weaver, even with STACKS, to be what my poor, feeble brain needs to kick content onto the web in a fully Responsive form with multiple breakpoints. But if you watched that Serif video I posted in my previous message, now that’s the kind of intuitive design for me! And truly, that is the kind of design that Freeway affords my feeble brain when it comes to legacy table-based layouts. It’s not just me either, Paul Dunning has said the same.

Hands down, Serif kicks booty when it comes to their existing Affinity apps. If you’ve never tried them, please do so. That’s why I am eager to see them expand the functionality shown in their video to a true HTML generator. I want something almost as easy as MacPaint was for me, back in the days when I was 13 and my father brought home a Macintosh 128k. The intuitive nature of that UI was brilliant. And that’s exactly what struck me in 1999 when I first laid my eyes on Freeway. No coding required. No studying for days and hours to figure out what to do. Indeed, no picking up of the manual required for simple designs. That’s what I want. That’s what I need. That’s now what RW offers to me. And yes, I’ve tested about every version of RW that has come out, since its inception, just so I could compare with Freeway. I myself don’t see a benefit in RW. I have my eyes on Serif.

—James Wages

Justin Easthall

8 Jul 2016, 12:47 am

Im not stubborn at all - Ill leave any product for another in a second if its better - which is what I did when RW became freeform. And I now too have my eye on other products ready to jump if need.

Just saying

JDW

8 Jul 2016, 12:52 am

That is yet another difference between you and I. I would never leave a product “in a second” for another. It would have to spend considerable seconds to evaluate whether the potential replacement product is suited to my brain. I am lesser inclined to alter my brain for the new product. Consider well I’ve been a Freeway user since 1999 (version 2) and am still using it, despite the fact I’ve never created a Responsive site with it. Some people may look down on me for that, but I don’t care. The world is filled with diversity of thought.

Once again, for the rest of you who missed my earlier post, have a look at the responsive web design mockup feature being previewed by Serif (maker of Affinity apps) here:

https://vimeo.com/169816724

—James Wages

Chris Rutkowski

8 Jul 2016, 2:36 am

James,

Affinity does look quite promising-lean and aggressive and in the moment. As a casual FW user (musician by trade), I would be most interested in an app that has a modest learning curve (hence FW…).

Just curious, do you think it would be possible to design a page in Affinity and then drop the code into a FW page? Their virtual responsivity looks like a terrific solution to that issue.

Thanks,

Chris

Chris Rutkowski

Creative Director, LUNA Media www.chrisrutkowski.com

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 7, 2016, at 8:17 PM, JDW <[email protected]> wrote:

JT, I doubt SoftPress would have closed its doors so formally if they imagined a subscription model would sustain them. There are no doubt other engineering issues too that we know nothing of, seeing Freeway is still an old carbon based app built upon the MacApp framework. It would truly take a fairly large engineering team well versed in modern coding standards to move Freeway a huge leap forward. And that is why it has been my hope over the past year (secretly, in my heart) that some merger or buyout or deal could be struck between SoftPress and Serif, maker of the amazing Affinity apps. Serif is on the fast track to kick serious Adobe fanny, and adding a powerful web design tool to their collection would be yet more icing on the cake.

Consider well what Serif have already (which sadly, for now anyway, is only for mock ups):

https://vimeo.com/169816724

Immediately upon seeing that video I wrote them to suggest they take it further, toward full blown HTML output. My lone voice won’t mean much unless the rest of you join in, so here’s their contact info:

http://www.serif.com/contactus.aspx

https://www.facebook.com/MacAffinity

I’ve purchased both Affinity Designer and Photo, and while I don’t use them full time yet because they haven’t yet replaced Photoshop and Illustrator, I contribute feedback toward making that happen.

If there was a way to keep Freeway alive AND advancing (finally prying it off MacApp and on to modern coding standards, Retina facelift, Responsive design for dummies like me that doesn’t involve stupid templates) then I agree we should be fighting to keep it alive. But not seeing that happen, I myself must now explore other avenues.

I am aware of RapidWeaver and Stacks, and I had a detailed look at both recently and found that combo seriously lacking. It’s no Freeway replacement, believe me. And nothing else out there really compares to Freeway either That has been true since Freeway’s inception, which is what brought me to SoftPress in the first place.

That’s why I see Serif as the lone company out there who has the engineering capacity to get a web design tool created. Where there’s a will there’s a way. So it’s all a matter of inspiring that will in them.

Best wishes,

James Wages

Elizabeth

8 Jul 2016, 2:44 am

Dear Joe & Co, I am really shocked, surprised and more at reading about the close of Softpress and truly saddened that you had to make this tough decision. I started using FW from version 5 and it really was a great help to me. Through FW I was able to do so much more than I did with other apps like GoLive. I found support people at Softpress towers incredibly helpful on the occasions that I needed something out of the ordinary and of course thank the incredibly helpful people on the forum, especially Caleb, Delta Dave, Walt, Tom, Max (webyep) and everyone else. Thanks for creating FW, Joe and Richard. I do hope that you can find a way forward.

David Wilson

8 Jul 2016, 2:55 am

At first glance I think Affinity Photo will replace Photoshop Elements in a heartbeat. While I’m not a power user by any stretch of the term, I have used Freeway for my own website only, since version 3. For me it had to be simple as I only used it once or twice a year. I do hope for something simple in the next few years when the time comes to update my site again. Thanks Softpress for making this part of my life simpler.

On Jul 7, 2016, at 7:36 PM, Chris Rutkowski <[email protected]> wrote:

James,

Affinity does look quite promising-lean and aggressive and in the moment. As a casual FW user (musician by trade), I would be most interested in an app that has a modest learning curve (hence FW…).

Just curious, do you think it would be possible to design a page in Affinity and then drop the code into a FW page? Their virtual responsivity looks like a terrific solution to that issue.

Thanks,

Chris

Chris Rutkowski

Creative Director, LUNA Media www.chrisrutkowski.com

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 7, 2016, at 8:17 PM, JDW <[email protected]> wrote:

JT, I doubt SoftPress would have closed its doors so formally if they imagined a subscription model would sustain them. There are no doubt other engineering issues too that we know nothing of, seeing Freeway is still an old carbon based app built upon the MacApp framework. It would truly take a fairly large engineering team well versed in modern coding standards to move Freeway a huge leap forward. And that is why it has been my hope over the past year (secretly, in my heart) that some merger or buyout or deal could be struck between SoftPress and Serif, maker of the amazing Affinity apps. Serif is on the fast track to kick serious Adobe fanny, and adding a powerful web design tool to their collection would be yet more icing on the cake.

Consider well what Serif have already (which sadly, for now anyway, is only for mock ups):

https://vimeo.com/169816724

Immediately upon seeing that video I wrote them to suggest they take it further, toward full blown HTML output. My lone voice won’t mean much unless the rest of you join in, so here’s their contact info:

http://www.serif.com/contactus.aspx

https://www.facebook.com/MacAffinity

I’ve purchased both Affinity Designer and Photo, and while I don’t use them full time yet because they haven’t yet replaced Photoshop and Illustrator, I contribute feedback toward making that happen.

If there was a way to keep Freeway alive AND advancing (finally prying it off MacApp and on to modern coding standards, Retina facelift, Responsive design for dummies like me that doesn’t involve stupid templates) then I agree we should be fighting to keep it alive. But not seeing that happen, I myself must now explore other avenues.

I am aware of RapidWeaver and Stacks, and I had a detailed look at both recently and found that combo seriously lacking. It’s no Freeway replacement, believe me. And nothing else out there really compares to Freeway either That has been true since Freeway’s inception, which is what brought me to SoftPress in the first place.

That’s why I see Serif as the lone company out there who has the engineering capacity to get a web design tool created. Where there’s a will there’s a way. So it’s all a matter of inspiring that will in them.

Best wishes,

James Wages

www.sistudio.net

Joe Workman

8 Jul 2016, 3:01 am

Let me introduce myself… My name is Joe Workman. I develop add-ons for RapidWeaver. I have around 140 add-ons available that range from simple youtube embeds to slideshows to full blown online CMS and Blogging solutions. Here are a few URLs that you can use for reference to the solutions that I provide…

I also run a popular user community at https://weavers.space

To be honest, I am nervously posting here… I have heard rumors of the dislike for RapidWeaver that users have posted on this forum. So I feel like I am somewhat coming into rebel territory. However, I come in peace, waving a white flag and all that. So please go easy on me… :-)

First, let me give my condolences to the crew at Softpress. I have been an indie software developer for 5 years now. I support my entire family of 5 with my business. I also have a small crew of guys who are amazing. The decision that Softpress made had to have been unbelievably hard, especially when you have built a dedicated and passionate community around their products. From experience, I am sure they feel the same about all of you here that I do about my users as well.

We consider you (the community) part of our family. My community is a vital part of my life. I have built such amazing friendships with so many users over the years. Many of them are able to run full time web design companies because of the products and solutions that I provide. I have no doubt that the Softpress crew feel the same. I wish them luck in their future endeavors. My heart sincerely goes out to them for the tough decision that they had to make. Hopefully, I can also help some of you in this community.

I have very limited experience using Freeway. But from the limited use that I have had, I can see that its workflow is completely different than that of RapidWeaver+Stacks. I saw that one user mentioned Serif. I agree that they are an amazing company that has done mind boggling work. Taking on Adobe… wow! I also see the parallel between the workflow of their apps and Freeway. I am not surprised by James’ desire for them to make a web design app because the workflow is very similar and it would potentially be a path of least resistance.

However, you can indeed make amazing websites with RapidWeaver. I personally prefer the workflow that I and other developers have built around RapidWeaver. That does not mean that its better. Its just different and it “clicks” better with me. I encourage that if you have not looked at RapidWeaver in some time, to please review it again. Maybe it will click with you as well.

Here are a couple of sites that contain galleries of websites that have been designed using RapidWeaver:

I would like to welcome anyone here to get in touch with me personally if you have any questions. I routinely do live hangouts with my community every Friday. Its an amazing way to connect and build friendships. I would be willing to setup a live hangout with any of you either in a group setting or one-on-one. I am in this for the long haul. I love my community and enjoy helping them build amazing websites for themselves and their clients. I would love for any of you to be apart of that.

Cheers, Joe

JDW

8 Jul 2016, 3:11 am

Chris R.,

I’ve already spoken to Serif about the upcoming “responsive” feature in their Affinity app (as you saw in the video), but they informed me that it is merely for mock-ups right now. I then pressured them to consider generating HTML code. If they do that, you really wouldn’t need Freeway.

But like I said, I am just one guy who voiced my support of “HTML output” to Serif. I would encourage everyone else (“who doesn’t see the world as code” like me) to write to Serif about this and push them in the right direction.

Honestly, nobody is trying to make Responsive design as simple as that Responsive mockup feature from Serif. No, not even Rapid Weaver + Stacks. Write to Serif! And honestly, once they learn of the demise of Freeway, that may be yet another incentive for them to act.

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-

I’d like to close my SoftPress Freeway sentiments by saying a HUGE “thank you” to Joe Billings and Walter Davis, without whom the things I sought to build into my websites using Freeway would never have come to be. Walter was not only a huge part in helping people in this forum, but he also built it too. ActionsForge is also the fruit of his labors. If there was a way to purchase a clone of his genius and transplant it into my feeble head, I’d do it in a heartbeat! Thank you, gentlemen. THANK YOU!

James Wages

Joe Workman

8 Jul 2016, 3:26 am

An HTML export from Affinity would definitely be interesting. However, that will only ever provide us with a static HTML site. That could totally work for simple websites. Even if its responsive, modern websites nowadays are dynamic interfaces with lightboxes, slideshows, galleries, video, JS effects and more. A simple site export from Affinity will not provide any of that.

JDW

8 Jul 2016, 3:30 am

Joe W.,

Don’t limit your mind to what you see in that Serif video. Active software development isn’t static either. If we can get Serif to create something that generates HTML, they could begin to add things to it for truly dynamic pages.

I always give them my laundry list of wants for Affinity Designer and Photo in their forums, so I would recommend the rest of you head over there and let loose!

https://affinity.serif.com/forum/index.php?/forum/6-feature-requests/

James Wages

Joe Workman

8 Jul 2016, 3:44 am

I was looking at it purely from the “now” standpoint. Obviously they could develop features for this. However, I don’t see that as fitting inside either Designer or Photo. I think that if they were going to build something like that, it would be a new app. Obviously the software that I develop is no where near their level. But from my experience, that would be what I would do. Will it happen? I don’t know, I don’t have my magic 8 ball anymore. If they did, I suspect it would be years away.

JDW

8 Jul 2016, 3:49 am

Joe, I take it you don’t know much about Serif. I bought both of their apps and participate in their forums. They have a lot planned, event a replacement for InDesign. A web design tool is a logical next step. And the more people calling for it, the more likely it is to see the light of day.

James Wages

Joe Workman

8 Jul 2016, 3:55 am

You are right, I don’t know a lot about Serif. You are 100% correct in “rallying the troops” for those that want that feature. Its the only way to convince companies to do something. Good luck!

I am very happy with where I am though. My offer above still stands to everyone here that is looking for a alternate tangible solution now.

JDW

8 Jul 2016, 4:06 am

Joe W.,

I can only add that all my sites are built with Freeway 7 and I am happy to continue using Freeway until the tires come off and the engine explodes. Hopefully, Serif (or some other brilliant software company I’ve not seen yet) can do that before disaster strikes me.

Best wishes,

James Wages

Vanessa Gregory

8 Jul 2016, 4:07 pm

A very sad day - Softpress was more like family to me than a workplace - from 1993 as the first employee - and I still feel a part of that family today.

I feel that we all created something great together and I am sad that the work will no longer continue.

It’s great to see so many kind words from the community here and I hope you can continue to use Freeway in your work as long as possible to create great and beautiful things.

My best wishes to Richard, Joe and the rest of the team as we say goodbye.

Vanessa Gregory (former Tech Director and developer)

Paul

8 Jul 2016, 5:29 pm

One of the things I, like many others will be doing, is to see what’s out there, and clearly RapidWeaver will be on one of the applications to look at. So it’s good that Joe W has joined - we need as much information as we can get about what tools will allow us to evolve and move forward.

It does seem that RapidWeaver and Freeway are very different beasts. From the off, Freeway was born out of the ashes of Unicorn - a DTP application, which explains why it is and why it behaves like it does. The concept of templates is really an anathema -Freeway always, always works best when you start with a blank page and start drawing elements on the page.

RapidWeaver, from what I can glean, takes the opposite approach. It uses templates, and lets the user customise them to a certain degree. It seems that you can’t just start with a blank document and draw an element on a page. Its behaviour appears to be more like iWeb - when content is preordained, and you work within constraints.

Now, I’ve been trying to see what I can find out about RapidWeaver, and to be honest seeing how things work helps. I found a website - http://rapidweavercommunity.com/tutorials - which may contain what I need to help me determine how RapidWeaver works, and how I could potentially use it in my web work (which can involve a lot of PHP and database driven content) but anything beyond the basics seems to require a subscription.

So not sure at the moment - possibly RW is just not for me. It’s certainly very basic, but are its limitations just too great for me?

As James said, Serif are doing some great things with Affinity - in fact, I’ve pretty much dropped Adobe for their products. When I saw their responsive demonstration that James mention,d that really did make me think that they had the basis of a responsive web design application there - and their interface and tools are really familiar, so it won’t be starting from scratch. I really believe that now the decks are clear (as it were), they could easily repurpose their DTP app to build web pages. I’d certainly be there taking a very keen interest of they were.

All the best,

Paul

My Actions Site: http://www.actionsworld.com

Actions for Galleries, decorating that text box and many more!

PixelsArts

8 Jul 2016, 6:04 pm

With Freeway Pro can make projects like this, and today I share with pride My support the team of Softpress Thanks

http://nutsaboutflorida.com/

and this helped me gain target and earn more.

Thanks

Softpress Team,

Richard Logan and Joe Billings & All Team

Justin Easthall

8 Jul 2016, 6:11 pm

Paul - RW is no longer just a template - it has powerful freeform design capabilities. The Foundation stacks by JW, when you open is literally a blank page, you are free to do whatever ya like - add raw HTML, Scripts, or just drop in one of hundreds of stacks - that can be 100% customized. I would never have left FW if RW could not do this - but I have never looked back. I’m happy to demo some sites created with freeform design (Foundation/Stacks) and RW.

Here’s the RW Foundation home page https://foundation.joeworkman.net

These are basic - its come along way since then but def work checking out - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DUpMLdbq9w

Carla

8 Jul 2016, 7:41 pm

Oh dear… like a bad dream.. I never thought Softpress would go away.

I wish to thank you all for your support over the years.. With FW I found a second career, one that I cherish…and will continue using FW with my fellow teachers who I have been fortunate to work with over the years.

I will need to process the ramifications of all this. xo

JDW

8 Jul 2016, 8:09 pm

Justin E.,

Thank you for the 2 links. I didn’t find information about “breakpoints” until 6 minutes into your second video, but I see that only 3 are offered (which is perhaps all you would need):

Mobile (cell phones) Tablet Desktop (everything else)

Since you have experience with RW + Stacks + Foundation, would you be able to say how it deals with 2-byte languages like Japanese and Chinese? For example, we can use web fonts easily for English, but unless you restrict yourself to KATAKANA or HIRAGANA in Japanese, you wouldn’t be able to use web fonts due to their multi-megabyte sizes. So instead, I must specify Meiryo, MS P Gothic, Osaka and the like as a font set in Freeway. How does all this work in your RW setup?

From about 16:00 in your second video link, it talks a little about the 3 types of images (mobile/tablet/desktop) that can be used, but how I do ensure Retina graphics (144ppi) are visible on any platform (i.e., that graphics always look sharp on hi-rez displays)? And is it possible to get your page to serve 72ppi graphics to low resolution displays but server the 144ppi images only to Retina displays?

Next, at 24:35, I see the “Getting Started with Foundation” text in the header smash against the “Menu” text at right when page width is minimized. That of course looks terrible, so how do you rectify it?

Next, how do you incorporate a search field into the header, akin to what I ask in the following thread?

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/160450#latest

Lastly, what is the total cost for RW, Foundation and all the Stacks we see in the 2nd video?

Thanks,

James Wages

Justin Easthall

8 Jul 2016, 8:22 pm

Sorry - I cant go through all this - but its all DOABLE. Nothing I read above hasn’t been done in RW. Things like 3 breakpoints? Well now you can set your own, Font pro will allow you to load up type-kits, webkits etc from your own server or Adobe /Google servers anything you want in any language at the same time.

I dont work for RW - but please go to the stores/forums/communities etc - its all there! Live and buzzing.

Cheers - now off to the boozer.

Frank Bridges

8 Jul 2016, 8:50 pm

After switching over to Freeway Pro from GoLive/Dreamweaver years ago I will miss the anticipation of new features with each new release.

It’s hard to find apps with as much ease of use and familiarity for a graphic designer.

Currently, I am beta testing Foundation Framer a new offering that will be available soon from Coffee Cup. This app looks pretty promising as it has built in components from the Foundation 6 framework, integrates flexbox, nice CSS control, uses a grid system, has a lot of standard elements with drag and drop simplicity and is very responsive friendly with the ability to add multiple breakpoints and uses a visual slider to see how everything flows for different screen sizes.

Andries Kuipers

8 Jul 2016, 10:28 pm

@Frank: I’m testing Responsive Site Designer and their beta version of Foundation Framer too. They’re a bunch of keen fellows at Coffeecup with an excellent support. Its still not overloaded with options but its well built and pretty straightforward. I like it.

But also Muse is a good alternative to Freeway. Webydo is also meant for designers who lacks coding but more expensive since they extremely raised their monthly prices.

2016-07-08 22:50 GMT+02:00 Frank Bridges <[email protected]>:

After switching over to Freeway Pro from GoLive/Dreamweaver years ago I will miss the anticipation of new features with each new release.

It’s hard to find apps with as much ease of use and familiarity for a graphic designer.

Currently, I am beta testing Foundation Framer a new offering that will be available soon from Coffee Cup. This app looks pretty promising as it has built in components from the Foundation 6 framework, integrates flexbox, nice CSS control, uses a grid system, has a lot of standard elements with drag and drop simplicity and is very responsive friendly with the ability to add multiple breakpoints and uses a visual slider to see how everything flows for different screen sizes.

Paul

8 Jul 2016, 10:45 pm

There’s a whole lot of questions that video poses in my ind, and none of them seem to be answered.

I started watching the video, but I’m finding myself asking questions like “how do you love that logo from the left to the right”? Stuff that I know is easy in Freeway, but I don’t see much of that going on. I kind of feel that you’re dealing with a whole load of prescribed units, and if you want to change something fundamental in the layout that you are basically having to remove and replace.

A lot of folk here - myself included- are very much fans of the whole DTP paradigm, and I’d really like to see how that works in other apps. When a client phones up and asks for some layout changes, I want to be able to accommodate that request quickly and easily.

There’s a whole lot of other stuff that I could list - as I probably hinted before, inclusions of scripts - JavaScript, PHP, my own CSS (because we know that at some stage we’ll need it).

I guess I’ll have to join a few forums and see just what the deal is with other software.

On 8 Jul 2016, 8:09 pm, JDW wrote:

Justin E.,

Thank you for the 2 links. I didn’t find information about “breakpoints” until 6 minutes into your second video, but I see that only 3 are offered (which is perhaps all you would need):

Mobile (cell phones) Tablet Desktop (everything else)

Since you have experience with RW + Stacks + Foundation, would you be able to say how it deals with 2-byte languages like Japanese and Chinese? For example, we can use web fonts easily for English, but unless you restrict yourself to KATAKANA or HIRAGANA in Japanese, you wouldn’t be able to use web fonts due to their multi-megabyte sizes. So instead, I must specify Meiryo, MS P Gothic, Osaka and the like as a font set in Freeway. How does all this work in your RW setup?

From about 16:00 in your second video link, it talks a little about the 3 types of images (mobile/tablet/desktop) that can be used, but how I do ensure Retina graphics (144ppi) are visible on any platform (i.e., that graphics always look sharp on hi-rez displays)? And is it possible to get your page to serve 72ppi graphics to low resolution displays but server the 144ppi images only to Retina displays?

Next, at 24:35, I see the “Getting Started with Foundation” text in the header smash against the “Menu” text at right when page width is minimized. That of course looks terrible, so how do you rectify it?

Next, how do you incorporate a search field into the header, akin to what I ask in the following thread?

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/160450#latest

Lastly, what is the total cost for RW, Foundation and all the Stacks we see in the 2nd video?

Thanks,

James Wages

All the best,

Paul

My Actions Site: http://www.actionsworld.com

Actions for Galleries, decorating that text box and many more!

Joe Workman

8 Jul 2016, 11:17 pm

Paul & JDW,

Sorry for being absent from the thread most of the day….

Justin covered most of the questions but here is my take on things…

RapidWeaver has themes (templates if you want to call them that) and they are awesome for people that want to get a jumpstart in designing a site. However, my Foundation for RapidWeaver product allows you complete freedom to build what you want. You have a blank canvas to build whatever you envision.

Justin shared the first video in my Getting Started with Foundation series. Yes, that is me in the video. I have hundreds of videos on my YouTube channel. I have really embraced video because I feel that its a great way to make a personal connection with everyone. Its also the most effective way to show people how to do something that they have never done before.

Here is my youtube channel. I am working on organizing it a bit better and trying to take it to the next level. However, there are a ton of great video on there. https://www.youtube.com/c/joeworkmannet/playlists

Think of building your website using LEGO. You have building blocks called “stacks”. Each one could be a column layout, text, image, slideshow, gallery, etc. There are tons of them available. None of them require that you know any code whatsoever, you simple drag the stack onto the page and start adjusting your settings to your liking.

There is also a built in way to leverage layouts that you have built using stacks across multiple pages. This way you only have to build, let’s say your site header and footer once. Then simply use it on every page. Want to update it? No problem change the header or footer in one place and it updates everywhere. Its pretty amazing.

In terms of non-Latin based languages, RapidWeaver works great. I have numbers customers who build sites in Japanese, Korean, Cantonese and Arabic languages. I even have a right-to-left version of my Foundation product available for these users. Many of them have used my Font Pro product in order to easily import custom fonts in their languages. This way they are not stuck with just the defaults available.

By default my Foundation product has 3 break points. You can override these break points on a case by case basis in many stacks. I feel that 95-98% of the time, these 3 break points have been sufficient. However, with that said, in my next major version of Foundation, I plan on adding a 4th breakpoint. The reason is the iPhone 6Plus has really added a new common screen size that can at time be very annoying. So I will definitely nuke that problem in the bud.

In terms of the Menu on Mobile… that is getting pretty detailed for this conversation. But there are ways to rectify that. This video was simply a getting started video to go over the basics of how to get a website built as quickly as possible. Solutions for this could be to simply reduce the Site site to be something shorter (even if only on mobile). You could make the text smaller as well, but then that could make it less readable. Those are just 2 ideas… there is more than one way to skin that cat.

Now in terms of cost, here is the breakdown for what you would need to get started building with RW + Stacks + Foundation.

I had a discussion with Dan (from Realmac) and Isaiah (from YourHead) today and we would like to all offer all Freeway users a nice discount for moving over. They would like to offer all users a 30% and I will gladly sweeten the pie a little more and offer 40% off Foundation.

RapidWeaver: $99 - 30% Stacks: $49 - 30% Foundation: $99 - 40%

You can get the RapidWeaver discount at the following URL: https://www.realmacsoftware.com/store/offers/freeway-alternative/

For both Stacks and Foundation, you can use the coupon code “freeway” at checkout in order to receive the discount.

Stacks: http://yourhead.com/store Foundation: https://foundation.joeworkman.net/buy/

Joe Workman

8 Jul 2016, 11:31 pm

I started watching the video, but I’m finding myself asking questions like “how do you love that logo from the left to the right”? Stuff that I know is easy in Freeway, but I don’t see much of that going on. I kind of feel that you’re dealing with a whole load of prescribed units, and if you want to change something fundamental in the layout that you are basically having to remove and replace.

This is still easy to do inside RapidWeaver. I am not sure which logo you were referring to. However, you are not locked into any particular layout.

A lot of folk here - myself included- are very much fans of the whole DTP paradigm, and I’d really like to see how that works in other apps. When a client phones up and asks for some layout changes, I want to be able to accommodate that request quickly and easily.

Like I said earlier , the editing experience in RapidWeaver is different than Freeway. You can make layout changes just as fast in RapidWeaver.

There’s a whole lot of other stuff that I could list - as I probably hinted before, inclusions of scripts - JavaScript, PHP, my own CSS (because we know that at some stage we’ll need it).

You can use your own JS, PHP, HTML, CSS inside RapidWeaver as well. There is nothing stopping you.

Remember that this video that most of you hear are watching is intended to show newcomers to Foundation how to build a site using it. It expects the users to blindly copy my steps in order to learn how to use the program. If I were to try to explain every settings for everything, new users would get terribly frustrated and their brains would probably explode. :-)

I will try to make a new video that could explain how the workflow differs between Freeway and RapidWeaver. I am taking my family on a camping trip for the next 5 days. But I will try to get that done as soon as I can.

I would also be willing to schedule a live hangout with any of you later next week so that we could discuss. Would anyone be interested in something like that next Thursday 7/14?

Frank Bridges

9 Jul 2016, 2:28 am

@Andries, I bought Responsive Site Designer awhile back on one of those MightyDeals discounts and it and Foundation Framer are almost identical in interface. It is a bit of a learning curve from what we are used to in Freeway but it is promising. Like you mentioned their support is very good with quick responses.

JDW

9 Jul 2016, 2:34 am

Joe W.,

Thank you for the extensive information and video links. I did a quick scan of your videos but I didn’t spot any on SEARCH fields in websites. Please read the following:

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/160450#latest

I would appreciate your detailed thoughts on how such a search field is implemented in RW+Stacks+Foundation. Right now, my sites use Google Custom Search, so I obviously would like to retain that while exploring how to out a responsive search field atop my site, as I discuss in that other FreewayTalk thread.

Next, thank you for the discounts. Obviously, we Freeway users have a lot to digest first prior to committing to a Freeway replacement, so if the discounts remain valid for the remainder of thus year, that would give us a more realistic time frame to make a decision on what to do. I for one need to figure out how to move my two huge, non-responsive sites to some new web design tool.

I’m open to a live hangout, but being in Japan the time difference may make that difficult. In the meantime, I will be reviewing your YouTube channel as time allows.

Thank you,

James Wages

JDW

9 Jul 2016, 2:40 am

I would now like to ask for the opinions of Freeway veteran Responsive site designers, including but not limited to Ernie Simpson and Thomas, what your specific thoughts are regarding RW+Stacks+Foundation. There’s clearly a reason you have stuck with Freeway all this time, and Ernie, you spent considerable time creating an amazingly helpful blog on the subject too. Surely you knew of the existence of RW+Stacks and perhaps even about Foundation. So what specifically kept you locked to Freeway? Habit alone, or missing features?

Thank you,

James Wages

Joe Workman

9 Jul 2016, 5:39 am

I realized that I offered for users to contact me directly but I did not provide any details.

You are also free to join https://weavers.space and peruse topics and ask questions there. I am extremely active there as well.

Reminder that I am heading out on a camping trip with my family for a few days. So my response times will be slow to none until late next week. Although my team will be there answering email as well.

Joe Workman

9 Jul 2016, 5:44 am

Notice that the forum hides email addresses here… it is… “support -at- joeworkman dot net”

depending on how much email come through, you will probably get a faster response time from that email as 3 of us keep an eye on it.

However, if you would prefer to contact me personally, feel free to reach out to me at “joe -at- workman mail dot com”

purity

9 Jul 2016, 8:10 am

A very sad, sad day … All the best for the Softpress team and hopefully there will be someday a way to go on.

Greets

Ray

Freeway 7.1.1 Pro on Mac Pro 10.11.2

Tim Plumb

9 Jul 2016, 9:49 am

Hi James, Although not part of your list I thought I’d add my views on the subject. :-)

I’ve been using Freeway since version 2 (1999) and have watched RapidWeaver grow from a simple iWeb alternative into a big eco system. The application itself is now quite mature and can do pretty much most of what users expect of it but still some of the features you’d find in Freeway are only supported in third party stacks. In Freeway, for example, you can create an image map simply by dragging a linked area over an image. Admittedly RealMac have concentrated on the features that people now use so many of the legacy features of Freeway (image maps, frames, legacy HTML and CSS levels) that have been there since the start just don’t exist in the app.

For me personally the thing that holds me back from RapidWeaver is not the missing features or the third party additions (stacks, themes etc) market that seems to be driving the product (rather than the other way around) but it is the general state of code output. Isaiah at YourHead who originally created the Stacks plug-in has done a fantastic job of pushing RapidWeaver from a hobbyist app that essentially relied on themes into something that the user could define the layout and break that reliance on the theme structure. Part of this mastery is how Stacks isolates and ring fences each stack’s code into their own sections which stops one stck from stepping all over others on the same page. The downside is that it creates a lot, A LOT, of code for the page. Take a look at a RapidWeaver Stacks page and you’ll find a stylesheet and often a JavaScript file or two for each stack plus a whole load of structural code. I suspect 99% of users don’t care too much about this as, like Freeway in the past, “it just works” and who looks at the source code any way? For me it matters and although Freeway’s code output is far from ideal it isn’t abstracted to the point of not being able to follow the flow of execution while reading through the source code.

RapidWeaver fans here shouldn’t feel I’m singling them out as I feel pretty much the same way about WordPress. Both RapidWeaver and WordPress are ‘go to’ solutions in web development and share a lot of the same benefits but, sadly, a lot of the same issues I’ve mentioned above.

Personally I’m in no hurry to look for a Freeway replacement as the application still runs and I can’t recall the last time I contacted their support staff. I run my business, in part, on the strengths of Freeway and often use the application to prototype or create page templates that I then go on and adjust by hand or with an Action if needed. Each Freeway user will need to weigh up what Softpress shutting down means to them and move on, or not, as they feel most comfortable. I’d like to think that this, or another, forum would provide peer to peer support and a friendly ear to users who want to stick around. This has been such a great community over the years and, for me, it is worth a lot more that than the application that brought us all here. A huge tip of the hat goes to Walter for my feelings about this forum as over the years he has been the one to selflessly give again and again to the users here. Without Walter and that ‘do good’ ethos this place would be just like a lot of other forums.

If I did ever move away from Freeway then I’d consider Responsive Site Designer from Coffee Cup as it seems the closest I’ve seen to the sort of workflow I’d be happy with. Failing that I’m happy to open up my text editor and Photoshop or Sketch and code the thing I want from the outset.

These are exiting times and I’m keen to see every Freeway user supported in whatever journey they want to make. Regards, Tim.

On 9 Jul 2016, at 03:40, JDW <[email protected]> wrote:

I would now like to ask for the opinions of Freeway veteran Responsive site designers, including but not limited to Ernie Simpson and Thomas, what your specific thoughts are regarding RW+Stacks+Foundation. There’s clearly a reason you have stuck with Freeway all this time, and Ernie, you spent considerable time creating an amazingly helpful blog on the subject too. Surely you knew of the existence of RW+Stacks and perhaps even about Foundation. So what specifically kept you locked to Freeway? Habit alone, or missing features?

Tim Plumb - Experienced Freeway designer for hire

FreewayActions.com - Freeware and commercial Actions for Freeway Express & Pro

FreewayStyle.com - Free Freeway templates and parts to download, use and explore

JDW

9 Jul 2016, 10:20 am

Thank you for your detailed feedback, Tim. And thank you for your contributions to Freeway through the years, including FreewayActions.com. Walter Davis has been truly an indispensable part of the Freeway experience for decades, and so have you. I really don’t know what we would have done without all your visible and behind the scenes contributions. Thank you!

Here are the 2 takeaways from your post:

  1. RW + Stacks (+ Foundation) = potentially bloated code

  2. Responsive Site Designer = workflow akin to Freeway (with leaner code)

I too will continue to use Freeway for the time being, but I also know that I wish to create a responsive version of my two big sites. I need time to not only figure out which alternate web design too to invest my money in, but I also need time (perhaps months) to rebuild everything from scratch. Hopefully I would be able to accomplish all that before a version of MacOS comes out that breaks Freeway. And with my feeble brain, that is a genuine concern!

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/

Joe Workman, I’d still love to have you read though the following and offer feedback on how such search bars are implemented in RW+Stacks+Foundation:

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/160450#latest

Thanks,

James Wages

Kryten

9 Jul 2016, 11:08 am

Complete shock here. Freeway saved my bacon years ago when other types of work dried up and web design pulled in a lot of business and kept me going, mind you, web design technical requirements were simpler then. I owe Softpress and their team a huge debt of gratitude for that. From their first class Support to their totally personal approach. Not to mention FWT for their helpful and selfless support for anybody with a problem. I wish everybody at Softpress Towers bon voyage and may the Force be with you, always.

Experience is the sum total of all your near misses….

David Owen

9 Jul 2016, 11:19 am

I think we all knew this was on the cards sooner than later.

Many of the jobs I do now is levering a CMS into the Framework/structure that Freeway so quickly prototyped for me. I’m already putting into Freeway a lot of hand code from a text editor (Coda) it’s perhaps a small hop to just use Coda and Affinity Designer/Photo to do the whole thing. In the back of my mind I was only putting the decision off.

Like Ernie’s comments earlier Freeway was/is like a crutch or better a familiar pair of well worn slippers that it’s time to throw away and move on.

“Like it or not, the future is clearer now.” Ernie ~ 7 July 2016

David Owen { Freeway / Rapidweaver Friendly Web hosting and Domains }

http://www.ineedwebhosting.co.uk | http://www.PrintlineAdvertising.co.uk

On 9 Jul 2016, at 10:49, Tim Plumb <[email protected]> wrote:

If I did ever move away from Freeway then I’d consider Responsive Site Designer from Coffee Cup as it seems the closest I’ve seen to the sort of workflow I’d be happy with. Failing that I’m happy to open up my text editor and Photoshop or Sketch and code the thing I want from the outset.

www.ineedwebhosting.co.uk

Freeway Friendly Web Hosting, Domain Names, VPS and Dedicated Servers. (Create an account it’s Free!)


PrintlineAdvertising.co.uk

Print Design, Digital and Litho Printers, Promotional Merchandise and Corporate Gifts.

Ashley

9 Jul 2016, 11:43 am

Tim mentions excessive code with Rapidweaver projects but I wonder if he has seen the wonderful stacks from http://www.bigwhiteduck.com that work with Foundation and can be downloaded for free, though a donation is appreciated.

The developer called Andrew is fantastically skilled and makes huge efforts to ensure his addons both capable and efficient. For example Grummage one and two column stacks produce up to 60% less code in their default state http://www.bigwhiteduck.com/stacks/grummage/

I tried Rapidweaver many years ago and found it frustratingly limited so I came over to Freeway, which I used from versions 4 through to 6, so I definitely gave it a decent go but to be honest I always struggled a bit to achieve the results I wanted with Freeway.

It was actually a post on this forum that led me to try Rapidweaver and Foundation. Was there a learning curve? Absolutely and I’m still learning, but in quick order I was able to start producing workable responsive sites and the range of options with Stacks is phenomenal.

It’s sad news that Softpress have decided to cease development and I wish them well but if you do your own web design work I would strongly suggest looking at alternatives as soon as possible, even if you continue to work with Freeway for the foreseeable future.

Ashley

Freeway 6.1.2 Pro, Rapidweaver 7.5.5, Blocs 2.5 beta https://greatwebdesign.uk/

Author of Colour Management Pro https://colourmanagementpro.com

Joe Workman

9 Jul 2016, 1:32 pm

James,

In terms of search, there are many addons for RapidWeaver that can do site search. I have a couple of search addons. One uses DuckDuckGo and the other uses SearchPath.io. Both services are somewhat meh to be honest. I also have a Bloggin product that has search built in but that is only for the blog.

The most popular search add-on for RapidWeaver is RapidSearchPro. It leverages Google. I also think that it may have its own algorithm as an option as well. There are at least 3 or 4 more search addons out on the market for RapidWeaver though. So you definitely have a lot of options.

seoras

9 Jul 2016, 1:57 pm

Very sad news on a dreich Scottish day, more so now:(

Though I rarely do web design these days I still enjoy dipping into this most friendly (mostly) and helpful of forums, hence finding this sad news. Freeway was the one sofware I looked forward to using, of course still is. Thanks also to FWT for the safety net.

Freeway (Softpress) set a high standard, justifiably winning numerous awards, however things change and the web has changed so dramatically over a relatively short period. No one could really have foreseen how things would pan out with web design.

I wish all at Softpress the best for the future, their undoubted talent will shine in all future ventures.

thank you

seoras (george)

Perthshire, Scotland.

Joe Workman

9 Jul 2016, 2:01 pm

Part of this mastery is how Stacks isolates and ring fences each stack’s code into their own sections which stops one stck from stepping all over others on the same page. The downside is that it creates a lot, A LOT, of code for the page.

There is some truth in this, but as with all things, its improved over time. In order for Stacks to encapsulate each stack added to the page, there are 2 div wrappers added. Each stack is also assigned and ID so that the CSS and JS can be properly scoped. This ensures that stacks function independently on the page and there is no style overlap. As you said most users should not care about this at all.

The community of RapidWeaver add-on developers is larger than it has ever been. As with anything, if you are wise with whom you purchase from, you should have smaller & cleaner code output. I personally work very hard to produce the smallest and cleanest amount of code out there.

When Stacks 3 was released last year, it has some new APIs that allowed developers to ditch the 2 div wrappers. However, not even I am removing the wrappers from all of my products because they do indeed serve an important purpose. They are not just fluff. However, where ever its possible, I definitely try to not use them. In fact with my next major release of Foundation, you will be hard pressed to differentiate sites built with it from a site coded by hand!

As of right now, my current Foundation product still produces some of the cleanest RapidWeaver site out there. The reason for this is that it loads the entire Foundation open source framework once on the page. Then you can add as many of the Foundation stacks as you want on the page and it adds virtually zero overhead to the page CSS or JS.

This is why its been really taken the RapidWeaver community by storm. I have many users that used to hand code using the Foundation framework. However, they moved over because move sites using my add-on was so much easier and more fun to use. It also produce much leaner websites. As I said earlier, the next version will be even better.

Joe Workman

9 Jul 2016, 2:10 pm

In terms of Responsive Site Designer from Coffee Cup…. I purchased their Responsive Email Designer app last year with very high hopes for it. I did not like their builder interface at all. I find it very confusing to use. When I saw that they released RSD, it seemed to have the same interface as the Email designer had. Hopefully with time, they will improve it. I do think that with some UX tweaks it could be 100x better.

JDW

11 Jul 2016, 12:04 am

Regarding “many add-ons to RapidWeaver that can do search,” that brings up another point of concern. There of course is the cost (now discounted, thank you) of RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation. But as has been said, that is not “all you need.” Want to add Search (and who doesn’t?), that’s an add-on. Want X-Y-Z, those too are add-ons.

One the one hand, this is great in theory. It would appear on the surface that RW + Stacks + Foundation + Add-ons can accomplish nearly anything the creative web designer seeks to do. But at what cost?

Many add-ons are not free, and it seems like moving to RapidWeaver may result in the web designer being nickel-and-dimed whenever they want to try something new. Or am I totally off-base on this?

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-

Ernie Simpson and Thomas Kimmich,

You both are Freeway veterans and Responsive web page design wizards. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I would still very much appreciate hearing your feelings about RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation and despite having all that available why you have stuck with Freeway all this time. Is it that you just grew accustomed to Freeway and didn’t want to try something new? Or did you in fact try RW + Stacks and find a barrier (like Tim Plumb) that prevented you from switching to it?

Now that Freeway is not more, this is a topic all of us are surely pondering, not just me.

Thank you,

James Wages

Thomas Kimmich

11 Jul 2016, 8:36 am

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-

Ernie Simpson and Thomas Kimmich,

You both are Freeway veterans and Responsive web page design wizards. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I would still very much appreciate hearing your feelings about RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation

I don’t have any.

In fact, I’ll never use any “fiddle and hope” application anymore. Freeway taught me all I know. And that’s way enough for going an entirely different route.

I can’t judge Rapidweaver.

It was one coming into question when I started web design 8 years ago. I quickly realized, that everything needs to be purchased on plus of the basic core. Furthermore, those “stacks” are adding an incredible bunch of inline styles to the DOM just for positioning purposes. It is bloating the head with many browser requests (many css files). Perhaps it’s possible to concatenate them to one?

But this doesn’t necessarily means it’s bad. It’s simply not part of my plan.

and despite having all that available why you have stuck with Freeway all this time. Is it that you just grew accustomed to Freeway and didn’t want to try something new? Or did you in fact try RW + Stacks and find a barrier (like Tim Plumb) that prevented you from switching to it?

I found an incredible modern workflow. In mid of this is sitting Freeway as an important part - to be pedant: The core element.

In Freeway I manage the content and its positioning (Structure). Furthermore the very basic styling such as typography and colors. All the rest - such as fancy styles (shadows, rounded corner :-) … you know what I mean) and the functions (JavaScript) is coming from an external library. All this is managed via CodeKit and an external CodeEditor. All files are placed on dropbox and giving me the chance for somehow live development.

This all means, that I go on with Freeway! I expect it being alive the next 2 years. Enough time to find an alternative (which I already have somehow (51% tendency towards).

You see that there isn’t mach space for Rapidweaver. And Rapidweaver would even force me recreating all my stuff onto their platform. A no-go!!! But as already said: This doesn’t necessarily mean RW as a bad application.

Cheers

Thomas

Thomas Kimmich

Kimmich DigitalMedia

http://www.kimmich-digitalmedia.com

T.+49(0)7404-914 384

Somewhere in the South of Germany

sonjanna

11 Jul 2016, 8:46 am

As some already mentioned the upcoming Foundation Framer of CoffeeCup (they offer already Responsive Site designer, but Foundation Framer must be much better ) sound very promising to me. They have excellent support, which is important to me. I try to get a beta version as soon as possible.

https://www.coffeecup.com/foundation-framer https://www.coffeecup.com/foundation-framer

Still in beta, but hopefully coming soon.

All the best, Hanna

german web/designer

JDW

11 Jul 2016, 9:16 am

Thomas,

Thank you for your opinion. I will assume for now that Ernie Simpson shares your reasons for having remained faithful to Freeway all these years.

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-

sonjanna,

The only video I could find for CoffeeCup “Foundation Framer” is the following, and I must say it sure doesn’t look nearly as easy to use as what Joe Workman shows in his videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi73Bg1wtvo

But again, my main concern with RapidWeaver is how much I am going to be nickel-and-dimed for every little new thing I want to add to my sites build on that platform.

Best,

James Wages

Trevreav

11 Jul 2016, 9:18 am

Well that’s a lot of news to take in from the past week while my Mac has been in hospital!

Richard, Joe, I’m very sorry to hear that, and may I wish you all the best in your future endeavours - you’ve been a great help over the years. Richard, I remember you rang me up personally many years ago when I had a problem that couldn’t get sorted, much appreciated.

Sorry to see you go…

Trev

On 4 Jul 2016, at 15:15, Joe Billings <[email protected]> wrote:

To all our friends, partners and customers:

The end of Softpress Systems Ltd. has come. It has become clear that our prospects, both in terms of current revenue and new product development, are insufficient to sustain the company as a viable entity going forward.

It is with great sadness that we have made this decision; Softpress has been a part of our lives for over two decades. The challenges that we have overcome, the friendships we have found, and the daily efforts we have shared as a team, have defined much of our lives since 1993. Some of our team have been “on duty” here at Softpress Towers since the beginning.

We will do our best to ensure that users can get community support in the short term through FreewayTalk, though there are no plans to further develop our products at this time. Customer downloads will continue to be available.

We wish we could do more. Who knows what comes next?

Thank you for your support over these many years.

For the whole of the Softpress Team,

Richard Logan and Joe Billings

All the best

TrevReav

Ho’way the lads

Tim Plumb

11 Jul 2016, 11:56 am

Hi James, I was looking at your comment below and thinking that I’d always had the assumption that if you developed with RapidWeaver that you’d need to be prepared to purchase new stacks or themes to achieve the sort of things you wanted. However that was nothing more than an assumption.

What I’ve done is to pick the first site from the RapidWeaver gallery and see what stacks and other bits the creator has used to build the site.

From my limited knowledge of pulling these sites apart here’s my shopping list for this site; http://rapidweavercommunity.com/gallery/chet-j-collins

RapidWeaver 7 - $99.00 Writer Theme - $29.00 Stacks 3 - $49.95 Font Pro Stack - $49.95 Foundation Stack - $59.95* Houdini Stack - $4.95 Responsive Layout Stack - $19.95 Useful Stack - free

— Total cost in USD - $312.75

Header X Stack - £5.99** True Retina Stack - £6.99** Button Press 2 Stack - £6.99** Responsive Shim Stack - £5.99**

— Total cost in GBP - £25.96**

Converted cost to USD - $33.69

Final cost (roughly) - $346.44

Obviously for an individual site the final cost could well be prohibitive for some users but you’ll obviously have to consider that you can use all of these resources on other projects as well as receiving support from their authors. I’d also imagine that, like Freeway, you could ‘get out and push’ and use markup items to achieve most of these effects rather than plonk down the reddies for the stacks which would bring the cost down considerably.

As I mentioned before RapidWeaver has a whole eco system around third party products (themes, stacks, training, hosting etc) and very much like WordPress plug-ins you’ll find several solutions to pretty much anything you’ll need with what appear to be most at the commercial end of the market. Regards, Tim.

  • The Foundation Stacks are available in different sets and I can’t tell from the source code which package the author is using. For the sake of argument I’ve chosen the cheapest option. ** I couldn’t easily find the UDS price for these stacks but have converted the GBP price to USD using the XE.com daily conversion rate.

On 11 Jul 2016, at 10:16, JDW <[email protected]> wrote:

But again, my main concern with RapidWeaver is how much I am going to be nickel-and-dimed for every little new thing I want to add to my sites build on that platform.

Tim Plumb - Experienced Freeway designer for hire

FreewayActions.com - Freeware and commercial Actions for Freeway Express & Pro

FreewayStyle.com - Free Freeway templates and parts to download, use and explore

The Big Erns

11 Jul 2016, 3:24 pm

I will assume for now that Ernie Simpson shares your reasons for having remained faithful to Freeway all these years.

 Just leave me out of it you stubborn ginger nutter.

Quit trying to bait me into replying to your stupid discussion. Freeway is not my religion or my girlfriend and I quite resent your assumptions on my part.

I used Freeway to generate a specific code-outcome, that’s all. Instead of using it to avoid learning any code, I embraced using it specifically to learn how websites are made. I actively encouraged others to do the same.

no longer subscribed to this discussion…

waltd

11 Jul 2016, 3:27 pm

Gentlemen! You can’t fight here — this is the War Room!

Walter

On Jul 11, 2016, at 11:24 AM, The Big Erns <[email protected]> wrote:

I will assume for now that Ernie Simpson shares your reasons for having remained faithful to Freeway all these years.

Just leave me out of it you stubborn ginger nutter.

Quit trying to bait me into replying to your stupid discussion. Freeway is not my religion or my girlfriend and I quite resent your assumptions on my part.

I used Freeway to generate a specific code-outcome, that’s all. Instead of using it to avoid learning any code, I embraced using it specifically to learn how websites are made. I actively encouraged others to do the same.

Freeway user since 1997

http://www.walterdavisstudio.com

Kryten

11 Jul 2016, 3:31 pm

On 11 Jul 2016, 3:27 pm, waltd wrote:

Gentlemen! You can’t fight here — this is the War Room!

Walter

I think they were after our bodily fluids Walt.

Experience is the sum total of all your near misses….

JDW

12 Jul 2016, 12:00 am

Thank you for your kind reply, Tim. That’s what I was thinking about the overall cost and is one reason why I have always been concerned about using RapidWeaver to get something done.

Mr. Simpson, thank you for your feedback as well. Understood.

Walter, if “this is the War Room,” why can’t we “fight here”? ;-)

Gingerly yours,

James Wages

waltd

12 Jul 2016, 1:04 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeqVGP-GPM

On Jul 11, 2016, at 8:00 PM, JDW <[email protected]> wrote:

Walter, if “this is the War Room,” why can’t we “fight here”? ;-)

Freeway user since 1997

http://www.walterdavisstudio.com

JDW

12 Jul 2016, 1:18 am

Walter, thank you for the link. I learn something new every day.

Hopefully I won’t anger you as well by pointedly asking you this question, but what is your opinion on intuitive web design options for Freeway users “who don’t see the world as code”? (That may be a challenging question in light of how you see the world as code, but I value your opinion and is why I ask.) You too have been in the Freeway camp for decades. It’s obvious you never left for a reason, despite all the web design software out there.

Thus far, we’ve heard people in this thread pitch MUSE (Adobe… subscriptions… surely they must be kidding!), software from a Coffee Cup (but I don’t drink coffee, nor have I been impressed by the video I saw of it), and a tommy-gun worth of posts pitching RapidWeaver (which looks like a small loan may need to be taken out to pay for a decent site to be built, even with the discounts given to Freeway users in this thread).

Thanks,

James Wages

waltd

12 Jul 2016, 1:52 am

I’ve been teased by a number of different new apps lately — I put good money into that Kickstarter a while ago, only to have the app get bought and sunsetted by Invision, who already have their own Web-based prototyping app.

It’s frustrating. On the one hand, it seems pretty easy to put a wrapper over WebKit and make a Web design app out of it. There are tons of examples already, more coming it seems daily. But to have any of these work as Freeway does — a site at a time, rather than a page at a time — seems to be too much of an ask.

Freeway was and is a special snowflake, and I don’t see anyone else reaching for that particular set of features. Perhaps the market for that sort of application is smaller than you or I would like to admit.

As for my own needs, Freeway stopped being useful for the kind of work I do over 10 years ago, and while I have been able to do creative work with nothing but a text editor, I do miss the direct manipulation and intuitive “messing around” of the old days. I have to work harder in my left brain to get a result than I would like, if I’m honest.

In my dreams, Freeway would have grown with me, from PHP to Ruby, to whatever comes next. Every time a new version was in the works, I would put my wish list out there and make it known what I needed. Softpress seemed to keep chasing the beginner I once was, rather than the pro I became under its tutelage.

Walter

On Jul 11, 2016, at 9:18 PM, JDW <[email protected]> wrote:

Walter, thank you for the link. I learn something new every day.

Hopefully I won’t anger you as well by pointedly asking you this question, but what is your opinion on intuitive web design options for Freeway users “who don’t see the world as code”? (That may be a challenging question in light of how you see the world as code, but I value your opinion and is why I ask.) You too have been in the Freeway camp for decades. It’s obvious you never left for a reason, despite all the web design software out there.

Thus far, we’ve heard people in this thread pitch MUSE (Adobe… subscriptions… surely they must be kidding!), software from a Coffee Cup (but I don’t drink coffee, nor have I been impressed by the video I saw of it), and a tommy-gun worth of posts pitching RapidWeaver (which looks like a small loan may need to be taken out to pay for a decent site to be built, even with the discounts given to Freeway users in this thread).

Thanks,

James Wages

Freeway user since 1997

http://www.walterdavisstudio.com

tonzodehoo

12 Jul 2016, 8:09 am

This is indeed a bit of a shock! I can’t say that I was one of those who seen this coming. I actually felt that the whole freeway project was beginning to embrace a next stage of significant development and I was investing more time on it as a tool with even greater potential for all my web design needs.

Its a particularly unwanted addition to the current sense of chaos and confusion which is afflicting the world.

This must be so very tough for those employed at Softpress. I hope that they have other opportunities come their way.

Like many others, Freeway gave me a way in to web design, with all the associated possibilities that emerged for work etc. I am so very grateful to all who offered support and advice. Delta Dave, Walter and Big Ern in particular. Like everyone else I shall have to take stock of where this leaves me in terms of the future. Thomas mentioned maybe another couple of years before there would be a need to leave Freeway behind. Who knows?

Will this forum become the saloon in the middle of a desolation after the gold rush? What is there at the end of a freeway?

Whilst the ramifications of the closure of Softpress will unfold I guess the concern is for support now for those in the middle of developing projects. It does leave many hanging at various stages of progress. Those transitioning form various versions of Freeway, those transitioning sites to responsive design and those trying to resolve niggles with existing work. I guess the fear for many may be that they may have nowhere to turn for support should this forum lose its focus.

There is a lot to take on board as a consequence of this end. Much of what has been said here on this forum has been enlightening.

I hope that this community can still continue to function and find a resolve, a new centre to build around.

All the very best to all at Softpress.

Gorbals Glasgow

MacOs 10.8.5 Freeway Pro 7! At last!

Joe Muscara

12 Jul 2016, 1:26 pm

This post triggers a lot of thoughts and memories for me. Mostly that I’m sad to see that Freeway will never become what many of us hoped it would. I thought that once Softpress started writing the Cocoa apps (Exhibeo and Chroma), that maybe that knowledge would allow them to modernize Freeway. I know that SP aren’t Apple, but I had hoped that Apple’s model of rewriting Classic apps from the ground up would be taken by Softpress. Maybe they could have started by writing a basic web design app aimed at people who just wanted to make simple web sites using WYSIWYG. Output clean code and work very simply. Then build the new version of FW on that - Freeway X, perhaps. FWX would have the simple stuff but could do the things power users needed too, the things Walter mentions below, as well as be a modern program that could grow with the times.

Alas, it’s not meant to be. One can hardly blame Softpress, really. I can picture it now. While they are working on FWX, the web keeps moving. It’s a never-ending race and that costs time and money. Today it’s “responsive” but who knows what it will be tomorrow or the next day. Heck, that’s a big reason I got off the treadmill. I got tired of chasing technologies that were out before I figured out the last one.

Yet I still have web sites that I work on and expect to have to some degree for as long as I’m around. When/if FW stops working, I’ll need a replacement and I don’t know that any of them will make me as happy as FW did. Even if something does, I’ll miss this community we created around it.

On 12 Jul 2016, 1:52 am, waltd wrote:

It’s frustrating. On the one hand, it seems pretty easy to put a wrapper over WebKit and make a Web design app out of it. There are tons of examples already, more coming it seems daily. But to have any of these work as Freeway does — a site at a time, rather than a page at a time — seems to be too much of an ask.

Freeway was and is a special snowflake, and I don’t see anyone else reaching for that particular set of features. Perhaps the market for that sort of application is smaller than you or I would like to admit.

As for my own needs, Freeway stopped being useful for the kind of work I do over 10 years ago, and while I have been able to do creative work with nothing but a text editor, I do miss the direct manipulation and intuitive “messing around” of the old days. I have to work harder in my left brain to get a result than I would like, if I’m honest.

In my dreams, Freeway would have grown with me, from PHP to Ruby, to whatever comes next. Every time a new version was in the works, I would put my wish list out there and make it known what I needed. Softpress seemed to keep chasing the beginner I once was, rather than the pro I became under its tutelage.

Tim Plumb

12 Jul 2016, 2:17 pm

Hi Joe, Why does the community side of things need to stop? Softpress will go away, FreewayTalk will too but the users here can always transition to a new home. I’m keen to see the FW community supported in some way going forward as I’m sure there will be people who will want to carry on with the application and could do with a friendly ear to bend about their experiences. Regards, Tim.

On 12 Jul 2016, at 14:26, Joe Muscara <[email protected]> wrote:

I’ll need a replacement and I don’t know that any of them will make me as happy as FW did. Even if something does, I’ll miss this community we created around it.

Tim Plumb - Experienced Freeway designer for hire

FreewayActions.com - Freeware and commercial Actions for Freeway Express & Pro

FreewayStyle.com - Free Freeway templates and parts to download, use and explore

Carla

12 Jul 2016, 2:21 pm

Hi all… if I may chime in, I agree with Tim that if its possible to continue with a FW forum, I would really appreciate that…. I will continue using FW app

I don’t see any reason why I cannot continue using what I have learned creating my own responsive sites from scratch with the wonderful help from the Softpress and fellow users.. thx

Leif H. S.

12 Jul 2016, 7:41 pm

On 12 Jul 2016, at 3:52, Walter Lee Davis wrote:

It’s frustrating. On the one hand, it seems pretty easy to put a wrapper over WebKit and make a Web design app out of it. There are tons of examples already, more coming it seems daily. But to have any of these work as Freeway does — a site at a time, rather than a page at a time — seems to be too much of an ask.

Freeway was and is a special snowflake, and I don’t see anyone else reaching for that particular set of features. Perhaps the market for that sort of application is smaller than you or I would like to admit.

A very interesting - and to the point - point.

It is probably a side effect of the fact that Freeway uses its own proprietary file format, where each site literally is a single file (from Freeway’s point of view) - it is only when the actual HTML is generated that it becomes single pages. That Softpress chose that approach, again, is is a sideeffect of the focus Freeway always has had giving users a free option with regard to publishing a peace of text as HTML vs as graphics - which probably is another very unique thing about Freeway.

Since Webkit operates on the endresult - the site, th editor part must somehow glue it together again in order to give the user the same site control as Freeway does. It sounds like a backward way of putting together a site design app …

If there exists a Web design programme that uses a single file for the entire site, then perhaps we will see similar features … It did not need to be a proprietary file format - it could be a single file XML document which parted into single page sections and displayed, to the users, as single pages … (In a way, CMS-es, such as Wordpress, has some of these sideffects/features - except that CMS-es tend to focus on items - article etc - rather than pages.)

As for my own needs, Freeway stopped being useful for the kind of work I do over 10 years ago, and while I have been able to do creative work with nothing but a text editor, I do miss the direct manipulation and intuitive “messing around” of the old days. I have to work harder in my left brain to get a result than I would like, if I’m honest.

In my dreams, Freeway would have grown with me, from PHP to Ruby, to whatever comes next. Every time a new version was in the works, I would put my wish list out there and make it known what I needed. Softpress seemed to keep chasing the beginner I once was, rather than the pro I became under its tutelage.

Allthough I am far from your level as a Web crafter, you have some points. leif halvard silli

vloerengilde

13 Jul 2016, 7:13 am

dammit, freeway was the tool to build a decent website wich generates enough customers for me… now i’ve to find something else in the future…

joe and the others.. thanks for the support and the great software and good luck with the new careers

www.vloerengilde.nl

Joe Muscara

13 Jul 2016, 1:03 pm

Sure. But the reality is that people will migrate away from the FW community as they transition to new tools, and the community won’t be getting any new users to keep it alive.

Should we be discussing the future of FWTalk? If this [gestures around himself] goes away, what will we do next? Where should we go? Can we move these archives to a host one of us has and continue it there? I know there are some here who prefer the community to be primarily email-based as opposed to web-based. Otherwise, there are free forum hosts I could suggest.

On 12 Jul 2016, 2:17 pm, Tim Plumb wrote:

Hi Joe, Why does the community side of things need to stop? Softpress will go away, FreewayTalk will too but the users here can always transition to a new home. I’m keen to see the FW community supported in some way going forward as I’m sure there will be people who will want to carry on with the application and could do with a friendly ear to bend about their experiences. Regards, Tim.

On 12 Jul 2016, at 14:26, Joe Muscara wrote:

I’ll need a replacement and I don’t know that any of them will make me as happy as FW did. Even if something does, I’ll miss this community we created around it.

The Big Erns

13 Jul 2016, 5:23 pm

This thread has helped me realize one important thing…

This forum needed either a sticky nav or a scroll up top button! :-D

no longer subscribed to this discussion…

waltd

13 Jul 2016, 8:48 pm

They are there! [Most Recent] at the top, and [Back to Top] at the bottom, just above the reply form.

Walter

On Jul 13, 2016, at 1:23 PM, The Big Erns <[email protected]> wrote:

This thread has helped me realize one important thing…

This forum needed either a sticky nav or a scroll up top button! :-D

Freeway user since 1997

http://www.walterdavisstudio.com

TeamSDA

14 Jul 2016, 9:41 pm

Hello Softpress and FreewayTalk community… I want to pause and extend my gratitude to Joe at Softpress and the many wonderful and helpful people who have been a part of this community, especially Walter, Tim, Max and several others.

A decade ago I embraced FreewayPro as a way to efficiently bring the building and managing of my companies sites in house. It has been a great tool and my hat is off to Softpress and it’s third party developers, your hard work has been valued and appreciated.

Thank You, Dave

Ian Halstead

15 Jul 2016, 9:46 am

Freeway and myself have some history. Mostly superb, but with the occasional stumble. I still have the original caddy box and CD for Freeway 1.0.2, with free upgrade to version 2, bought at a Mac exhibition at Olympia in London. I could see the potential then, and stuck with it. I’m so glad I did.

I just hope I can find a worthy replacement that can give me similar advantages in speed, and hence costs, to clients. A sad time indeed, and I’ll take this opportunity to profusely thank all those who have been involved in the development of Freeway over the years. Thank you very much for giving me such a great piece of software to work with.

Ian Halstead

Insanity is hereditary. Your children pass it on to you.

Ian Halstead, web, graphics & artwork

http://www.ianhalstead.com

JDW

16 Jul 2016, 3:03 am

Ian H., your post reminded me of Freeway memorabilia I have from the past. I still have my Freeway frisbee! My kids love it.

—James Wages

Richard van Heukelum

16 Jul 2016, 11:11 am

You have kids? Who knew :)

Ontwerpzaam.nl | Papendrecht, The Netherlands

Hardware: 27” iMac i5 3.1GHz / 32GB RAM / 4TB SSHD / 1GB VRAM /

Software : macOS 10.12.6 Sierra / Freeway7 (user since Freeway1)

Has moved on with CoffeeCup Software : CSS Grid Builder / Site Designer v3 / Form Designer / Responsive Foundation Framer / Responsive Bootstrap Builder / Responsive Content Slider / Responsive Email Designer / Color Palette Manager / Sonar / Website Insight and occasionally Blocs Web Design App. Use CraftCMS.

waltd

16 Jul 2016, 11:28 am

I have a couple of cloisonné ( f ) pins somewhere, from one of the Macworld SF shows. Richard Logan has the bulk of them in his basement, I think. We ordered several thousand, and gave away several hundred. Small club, but we have nice things.

Walter

On Jul 15, 2016, at 11:03 PM, JDW <[email protected]> wrote:

Ian H., your post reminded me of Freeway memorabilia I have from the past. I still have my Freeway frisbee! My kids love it.

—James Wages

Freeway user since 1997

http://www.walterdavisstudio.com

Caleb Grove

16 Jul 2016, 8:05 pm

Well, I guess it’s my time to say goodbye to the team at Softpress.

So, Softpress, thank you. Thank you. And thank you! If it wasn’t for you guys and Freeway, I never would have gotten into web design professionally. When iWeb was discontinued, I needed to find another WYSIWYG tool (as I was scared of code back then) and Freeway matched my mental model perfectly. I loved the fact that it was also a “deep” and extendable program, and knew that it would grow with me. Freeway was what taught me how to write HTML and CSS. Even now, when I know and love coding by hand, I still reach for Freeway for smaller projects. It’s not just faster — I found the visual way of construction was helpful to my creativity (or lack thereof).

Freeway literally changed my life, and it a big way. Thanks for everything.

Caleb Grove, Grove Design

Creator of Backdraft, the free responsive framework for Freeway.

Currently being held hostage by a herd of beef cattle in rural Montana.

grantsymon

17 Jul 2016, 4:57 pm

Shocked to see this sad news. Very sorry for all that work at Softpress towers and I hope that they won’t be too hard hit with loss or earnings etc.

I’ve only ever used FW for my website … so I guess it won’t be changing much any time soon. :)

Best wishes to Joe and his team

Grant

www.GrantSymon.com

eus

18 Jul 2016, 4:56 pm

i’m in shock, as the rest. I understand there are some problems, ( i hve been away a bit personal reasons ) but i don’t know what to say or do. Freeway is for most of us, the reason they are in webdesign, ON a mac!

to leave us like this, with a programm that is really not ready yet, but so close to beeing perfect seems a crime to all the people who are such fans. yes i understand that there are problems, appreciate them, but we all are there to support? we bought a program that is also a way of living and thinking. i just bought number 7 a few months ago and dont understand a thing about it :D surely there must be way to move forward?

i’m on a 2.7 quad and loving every moment…

JDW

19 Jul 2016, 12:03 am

eus,

SoftPress senior engineer Jeremy Hughes informed us earlier in this thread that, unofficially speaking, Freeway 7 Pro works on the upcoming MacOS. So you can continue using Freeway for the foreseeable future. And honestly, if you don’t upgrade your OS, then of course Freeway will be like the Energizer Bunny. It just keeps going, and going, and going… Well, you get the picture.

For me, I don’t see any other app out there like Freeway. Rapid Weaver + Stacks + Foundation looks interesting, but the cost of entering that world may be prohibitive for many, seeing you’ll get nickeled and dimed for every little “stack” you need. Others have mentioned an app by a Coffee maker (he he), but I just don’t see the appeal.

For now, I’m sticking with Freeway, Responsive websites be darned!

James Wages

redfeather

19 Jul 2016, 3:40 am

I’ve been trying to access the Knowledge base for a few days as I thought it was going to continue to be available. I’ve tried 3 browsers and all say unable to connect. Is it gone already?

I have loved Freeway, and without it I would not have been able to have such nice sites as I do not code. I’m an old school designer.

Thank you Joe, for everything you gave us! Was truly wonderful.

JDW

19 Jul 2016, 4:04 am

Seems that softpress.com is completely down. I doubt SoftPress took it down this quick. Must have been a stupid hacker, possibly a user of another web design tool giddy over the fact our superior web design tool is now defunct.

For now, use ARCHIVE.ORG (wait for the redirect when you click links there):

https://web.archive.org/web/20151208144143/http://www.softpress.com/kb/

James Wages

redfeather

19 Jul 2016, 5:31 am

Thank you James! I very much appreciate this link! Whew.

This forum is truly invaluable.

Tim Plumb

19 Jul 2016, 11:52 am

When Softpress announced that they were shutting down I sent Site Sucker (http://ricks-apps.com/osx/sitesucker/index.html http://ricks-apps.com/osx/sitesucker/index.html) to work downloading a copy of the main site, the knowledge base, market place and the Freeway Talk forum itself.

I was hoping to talk to Joe or someone at Softpress to see if they minded me putting this back online for the Freeway community but seeing we’ve now lost the KB I’ve taken the liberty of placing the flattened version of the site on DropBox at; http://softpress-kb.freewaystyle.com http://softpress-kb.freewaystyle.com/ or https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/795566/softpress/kb/index.html https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/795566/softpress/kb/index.html

Joe, if you are reading this maybe you can get in touch when you have a second?

As the message on the home page says the site is pretty much a faithful ’scrape’ of the KB from the week of 4th July 2016 (ish) although you can expect to find broken links out of the KB to other parts of the old Softpress site as well as a broken search facility. When I get time I’ll see if I can clean this up and reinstate the search facility as well as get the other parts of the Softpress site up and running.

If I need to move the site or remap it to another domain then I’ll repost here or over in the new Google Groups forum (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/freewaytalk https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/freewaytalk).

If you are reading this and want to send me a cease and desist letter then feel free to email me and I’ll take your content down. Regards, Tim.

On 19 Jul 2016, at 05:04, JDW <[email protected]> wrote:

Seems that softpress.com http://softpress.com/ is completely down. I doubt SoftPress took it down this quick. Must have been a stupid hacker, possibly a user of another web design tool giddy over the fact our superior web design tool is now defunct.

For now, use ARCHIVE.ORG http://archive.org/ (wait for the redirect when you click links there):

https://web.archive.org/web/20151208144143/http://www.softpress.com/kb/ https://web.archive.org/web/20151208144143/http://www.softpress.com/kb/

Tim Plumb - Experienced Freeway designer for hire

FreewayActions.com - Freeware and commercial Actions for Freeway Express & Pro

FreewayStyle.com - Free Freeway templates and parts to download, use and explore

John Cooper

20 Jul 2016, 2:01 am

Terrible news, and only one opportunity to Undo it…

Carla

20 Jul 2016, 2:05 am

Thanks so much Tim!!!!! very relieved with your plan..

Paul

20 Jul 2016, 1:28 pm

One app that looks interesting is Pinegrow. I’m clearly not going to rush into anything. It seems to operate using units, similar to RapidWeaver, but it appears to allow the inclusion of PHP and doesn’t look too horrible price wise.

One downside - the UI looks ghastly in places!

All the best,

Paul

My Actions Site: http://www.actionsworld.com

Actions for Galleries, decorating that text box and many more!

grantsymon

20 Jul 2016, 4:09 pm

Knowledge base is still working for me …

Grant

www.GrantSymon.com

Caleb Grove

20 Jul 2016, 4:17 pm

Knowledge base is still working for me …

Yep, it appears to be back online!

Caleb Grove, Grove Design

Creator of Backdraft, the free responsive framework for Freeway.

Currently being held hostage by a herd of beef cattle in rural Montana.

waltd

20 Jul 2016, 4:36 pm

They put another shilling in the meter!

Walter

On Jul 20, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Caleb Grove <[email protected]> wrote:

Knowledge base is still working for me …

Yep, it appears to be back online!

Freeway user since 1997

http://www.walterdavisstudio.com

Joe Billings

20 Jul 2016, 4:43 pm

Hey folks,

Sorry about the site being down - all my fault. It’s back up now (though I haven’t managed to get https:// to work at all - will look at that when I have time).

Here’s a little more information for you:

FreewayTalk and the KnowledgeBase will be available indefinitely. As far as I know right now, Freeway works fine in MacOS 10.12 Sierra. I’m going to go through all your emails to support and sales as soon as I get a chance and get any lost serial numbers out. This will probably be tomorrow or early next week now as things are a little busy for me, as I’m sure you can imagine!

Thanks so much for all your kind messages. It’s fantastic to hear how Softpress changed the lives of so many and I’m very proud to have been a part of that. I have no doubt that the rest of the team at Softpress, past and present, feel the same way. Speaking of which - I’d like to send a special shout out to Richard Logan, Vanessa Gregory, Alan Shouls, Kevin Meaney, Jeremy Hughes, Stewart Fellows, Simon Manning, Anna Henderson, James Davies, Tim Plumb, Keith Rigley, Katie Wagner, James Bairstow, Linda Munro, Gillian Betterton, Chris Sowley, Henk Hodiament, Volker Ritzhaupt, Thierry Rolland, Alex, Marco Cumar, Walter Davis, Keith Martin, Paul Dunning, Joe Mascara, James Wages, and Heather Kavanagh, all of whom made Softpress what it was. Thanks guys - it was a blast! Sorry if I left you out - it’s nothing personal.

Finally, I’d like to thank you. Yes you. Without you there would have been no Softpress. None of it. Nada. So thank you very, very, VERY much

Joe Billings

Freeway & Exhibeo: Visual web design apps for Mac


http://www.softpress.com

DeltaDave

20 Jul 2016, 5:19 pm

FreewayTalk and the KnowledgeBase will be available indefinitely. As far as I know right now, Freeway works fine in MacOS 10.12 Sierra.

Thanks for this Joe - reassuring to hear.

And the download links work provided you remove the https

Maybe when you get a minute you can share more details about the end of Softpress and what the future holds - as you see it.

Best wishes to all Softpress staff - I know I speak for a lot of others when I say that Freeway (in particular) changed my career path for the better.

D

Glasgow, Scotland

iMac 27 5K El Cap and Pro Final

Bootsie

20 Jul 2016, 5:34 pm

Best wishes to all Softpress staff - I know I speak for a lot of others when I say that Freeway (in >particular) changed my career path for the better.

D

Dito

FW Pro 7.1.4 (Freeway user since 2006)

Blocs 2.4 (Blocs user since July 2016)

iMac 2009

MacMini 2014

OSX 10.12.5

mobro930

20 Jul 2016, 6:00 pm

Yes, Freeway changed the possibilities for me too. Thank you. I will miss looking for updates.

Michael

On 7/20/16 1:34 PM, Bootsie wrote:

Best wishes to all Softpress staff - I know I speak for a lot of others when I say that Freeway (in >particular) changed my career path for the better.

D Dito

billy kimmel

20 Jul 2016, 6:53 pm

Joe W. Can you add mark up to pages rapid weaver? Style sheets etc?

Billy Kimmel

b8

20 Jul 2016, 6:59 pm

Why don’t you start a RapidWeaver topic? Could we have at least one topic that stays on topic?

billy kimmel

20 Jul 2016, 7:02 pm

Well since Joe posted in this thread it made sense to stay in the thread.

b8

20 Jul 2016, 7:17 pm

Also that self promotion guy had to realize it was better to start a new topic .

Joe Workman

20 Jul 2016, 7:17 pm

I thought that it was a good idea to start a dedicated RapidWeaver thread. Its here… https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170062

To answer the question… Yes, you can use your own code inside RapidWeaver.

b8

20 Jul 2016, 7:26 pm

On 20 Jul 2016, 7:17 pm, Joe Workman wrote:

I thought that it was a good idea to start a dedicated RapidWeaver thread. Its here…

What a coincidence.

billy kimmel

20 Jul 2016, 7:28 pm

Thanks Joe

Joe Workman

20 Jul 2016, 7:36 pm

@b8 not a coincidence, it was your good idea :-)

Trey Yancy

20 Jul 2016, 8:06 pm

Shocked. While there are competing apps in this category, none come close to Freeway.

Iain Mackenzie

20 Jul 2016, 8:39 pm

On 20 Jul 2016, 4:43 pm, Joe Billings wrote:

As far as I know right now, Freeway works fine in MacOS 10.12 Sierra. Joe, have you tried any file dialogue box, e.g. file>import? Hmmm….

Iain Mackenzie

20 Jul 2016, 8:41 pm

On 20 Jul 2016, 4:43 pm, Joe Billings wrote:

As far as I know right now, Freeway works fine in MacOS 10.12 Sierra.

Joe, have you tried any file dialogue box, e.g. file>import?

Hmmm…..

JDW

21 Jul 2016, 12:04 am

Folks, there are two Joe’s:

  1. Joe Billings of SoftPress
  2. Joe Workman, the hard worker of Foundation on Rapid Weaver

To ensure we can all understand you, please include the last name or last initial when you invoke their names. Please.

Joe Billings, thank you and best wishes!

—James Wages

The Big Erns

21 Jul 2016, 2:41 am

I vote that we call them both “Bruce” so as to avoid confusion.

— Bruce

no longer subscribed to this discussion…

Joe Workman

21 Jul 2016, 4:23 am

Hahaha

Joe Workman

On July 20, 2016 at 7:41:24 PM, The Big Erns ([email protected]) wrote:

I vote that we call them both “Bruce” so as to avoid confusion.

— Bruce

Joe Muscara

21 Jul 2016, 11:02 am

On 20 Jul 2016, 4:43 pm, Joe Billings wrote:

Joe Mascara

Joe who? ;)

JDW wrote:

Folks, there are two Joe’s:

Joe Billings of SoftPress

Joe Workman, the hard worker of Foundation on Rapid Weaver To ensure we can all understand you, please include the last name or last initial when you invoke their names. Please.

Two Joe’s what? I mean the Joes must have something.

I wonder what the third Joe is doing…

Trey Yancy

21 Jul 2016, 12:46 pm

If someone could take over the softpress forum, that would be very nice. There is a ton of good information there that we could use. Also, the certificate for this page has expired.

Is there a company out there who is good at marketing and that would be willing to buy Freeway?

Kevin Meaney

21 Jul 2016, 1:49 pm

I started a new role on the day Softpress made its announcement, so my first day was tinged with sadness. I was sadder than I had any expectation for.

I wish all my friends and former colleagues at Softpress well.

Kevin

PJM

21 Jul 2016, 7:43 pm

In retrospect it seems Softpress has been in trouble for some time. Although Freeway pro 7 is a really good application there has been very little in the way of training materials available. We have been left to work it out ourselves. If you are trying to develop new customers they need more help.

I will give Adobe Muse a look.

Pete

Trey Yancy

21 Jul 2016, 9:28 pm

Re: Muse - Since Adobe went to the subscription model I’ve been very shy of it. While users own the output for an Adobe CC project, the master document will only work with CC.

From our perspective, the way in which we create our projects (methods of masking, the way we use filters, keyframes, plug-ins, high-end video transitions, etc.) are our intellectual property. The subscription model means we do not own our intellectual property. We only rent it. I would rather not sign over these rights to Adobe.

Your perspective may be different. Things are also different when we are talking about HTML, as you can reconstruct a page or site from the code. (I haven’t used Muse, but if it allows you to export the code, it might be a good alternative.)

As we know, a shortcoming of Freeway that because of certain things going on in the background, reconstructing things from HTML output is more problematic.

I have no idea whether any company would be interested in buying Freeway and performing the due diligence to bring it up to speed, but I contacted the president of one company to let him know Softpress’ situation. Hopefully, Joe can get in contact with him and see what is possible. I’d like to think that someone out there will take over where Softpress left off.

billy kimmel

21 Jul 2016, 9:55 pm

Hey Todd, So I copied what you did and all of my images disappear.

http://smartypantsgraphicdesign.com

Billy

Paul

21 Jul 2016, 10:00 pm

On 20 Jul 2016, 4:43 pm, Joe Billings wrote:

Hey folks, Speaking of which - I’d like to send a special shout out to Richard Logan, Vanessa Gregory, Alan Shouls, Kevin Meaney, Jeremy Hughes, Stewart Fellows, Simon Manning, Anna Henderson, James Davies, Tim Plumb, Keith Rigley, Katie Wagner, James Bairstow, Linda Munro, Gillian Betterton, Chris Sowley, Henk Hodiament, Volker Ritzhaupt, Thierry Rolland, Alex, Marco Cumar, Walter Davis, Keith Martin, Paul Dunning, Joe Mascara, James Wages, and Heather Kavanagh, all of whom made Softpress what it was. Thanks guys - it was a blast!

Thanks for the shout! It was great being part of the effort - both inside and slightly outside the door (depending on whether I was an employee, or an outside freelancer, or the supplier of Useful Stuff). Lots of great things to look back on.

I still can’t believe it‘s all over. The feeling of loss is greater than Brexit, to be honest. If I find anything of use or interest in my archive of Softpress material I have here, I’ll do what I can to make it available.

All the best,

Paul

My Actions Site: http://www.actionsworld.com

Actions for Galleries, decorating that text box and many more!

Todd

21 Jul 2016, 10:02 pm

Revert your htaccess.

Todd Office (Chicago): 312.212.3955 https://qreativ.space

Hey Todd, So I copied what you did and all of my images disappear.

http://smartypantsgraphicdesign.com

Billy

JDW

22 Jul 2016, 12:41 am

Paul Dunning,

It’s technically not over until we all find a replacement for Freeway. And by the number of mentions of alternate web design tools out there, it seems the bulk of us are still searching.

RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation seems rather easy to use, as per the videos that Joe WORKMAN has put up for us. And while the discounts he rustled up for us are very nice, I worry about the long term cost. Being nickeled and dimed for every stack is a legitimate concern. “Want to add this basic thing that everyone else has on their site? Well, that’ll be $15, please.” “Oh, you want something else? That’ll be another $20, please.” Maybe I’m overblowing it, but thus far, no one has refuted this.


Joe MASCARA, or should I call you Bruce? (Then again, is it Bruce Wayne or Bruce Jenner or Bruce Lee or Bruce Springsteen? Sheesh.) Sorry I forgot to mention you. But the fact remains that we ought to put down last names. I think it makes posts a lot more clear. If people don’t like that, then unique initials like mine (JDW) may be another way to refer to specific people.

Best,

James Wages (JDW)

waltd

22 Jul 2016, 2:21 am

I wonder what would have happened — seriously — if I had chosen to charge for my Actions. Paul and Tim did, and I don’t know how the economics of it worked out, nor do I have any decent comparison between number of users. But I wonder if the simple fact that I was lazy, and didn’t charge (because I didn’t want to set up a commerce site, and didn’t want to feel beholden to my customers for support). I know that most of the other people who wrote and distributed Actions didn’t charge for theirs either.

What would the Freeway ecosystem look like if it wasn’t expected that all this codified knowledge was free?

Walter

On Jul 21, 2016, at 8:41 PM, JDW <[email protected]> wrote:

“Want to add this basic thing that everyone else has on their site? Well, that’ll be $15, please.” “Oh, you want something else? That’ll be another $20, please.” Maybe I’m overblowing it, but thus far, no one has refuted this.

Freeway user since 1997

http://www.walterdavisstudio.com

JDW

22 Jul 2016, 2:39 am

Walter, you make a valid point. But with regard to RapidWeaver, the core app isn’t designed to do much. Stacks makes it somewhat usable, and Foundation atop Stacks seems to be something that is quite useful (although how bloated the end code is, I’ve not thoroughly examined).

The thing with Freeway is that you could often start off wanting to do something, then you realize you don’t know how to do it so you post something here on FreewayTalk, and much of the time someone out there would give you a code fragment or tip on how to go about it, free of charge. Sometimes actions were required, but not really that often. But from what I see in the RapidWeaver world, you’d need stack for just about any little thing you want to add. Earlier in this thread I asked Joe Workman about a certain type of Search Field and the answer was that it would probably be out there somewhere in Stack form (although I certainly haven’t been able to find it).

There comes a point at which one must ask themselves a question. Can I do this myself at a reasonable cost or should I hire someone to do it? But if I hire them, then I’d need to use them for every little change in the future, which could end up costing me more in the long term than doing it myself.

I got into web design in 1999 only because my company at the time wanted me to do the job rather than pay a huge sum to an outside firm. I’ve always done website work in my free time. It’s not my full time job. Freeway made that possible for me. People who do websites full time have a very different view of web design and web design tools, I have no doubt.

—James Wages

Iain Mackenzie

22 Jul 2016, 7:26 am

I have been a FW user for about 3 years, and during that time, I have wondered about the financial model.

I can’t remember how much FW was to upgrade each version, but it wasn’t much. And, users could go on for years without paying any more cash. Why didn’t Softpress adopt a more aggressive approach? (Aggressive meant in the nicest possible way!)

The standard approach of many software companies is to charge an (almost) annual ‘upgrade’ fee for software that is not much different, e.g. Parallels.

Now, I don’t mind paying £30-£40 a year to keep companies afloat if I feel their software is useful to me, and that they are doing a good job of maintaining the software in terms of updates and customer support.

As Walter has alluded to in a post above, I also have never understood the Actions principle which as far as I can see was the cornerstone of the FW community. Most seem to have been free, or a fairly minimal cost. Why? Again, I’m sure users would be happy to pay more for something that would prove to be useful.

I know that users like me don’t have any idea about the finances of Softpress, or things that have gone on behind closed doors, but why did Softpress not pick up on the whole Action thing? Develop their own chargeable products? I guess it was largely because of the situation described above, i.e. so many free Actions readily available.

No point in going, I guess, but I am very sad about FW and Softpress. Is there no chance that someone - with larger resources than Softpress - will pick up FW and improve the marketing and development?

JDW

22 Jul 2016, 7:35 am

Iain,

I actually proposed to SoftPress back in December 2015 that a buyout or merger with Serif (makers of the superb Affinity apps) would make great sense. Serif has two great graphics apps, but no web design app that touches Freeway. But with Serif’s money and engineering team, I felt they could inject new life into Freeway. Specifically, whoever owns Freeway would need to move Freeway off the MacApp framework and onto something modern. That would be a major rewrite of the app, and no doubt would require more resources than SoftPress had to make it happen. Without modernizing the app, you also can’t have things like Retina UI optimizations. Such is probably also why we never achieved things extremely basic like Multiple Undos too.

—James Wages

Iain Mackenzie

22 Jul 2016, 7:54 am

James,

Interesting. I have been using the 2 Affinity products for quite a long time now, and after trying many Adobe CC ‘alternatives’ over the years, I feel we really do have one now.

The way that the Affinity team respond to support requests - both on the forums and by email - remind me of the community here.

In my opinion, an updated FW would be a perfect fit for the Affinity products, especially with the coming of Publisher soon.

Did you ever approach Serif directly? What reaction did you get from Softpress?

JDW

22 Jul 2016, 8:06 am

I got zero reaction from SoftPress, perhaps because even back in December 2015 they may have been in financial distress (who knows).

I contacted Serif in early June this year, after seeing their Responsive Web Design “mock-up” feature video:

https://vimeo.com/169816724

But I got no response from Serif either.

Again, that feature in Affinity Designer 1.5 is for the creation of a “graphical mock-up.” There is no HTML output. I wrote them to suggest they expand it to generate HTML, possibly in a separate app.

For truly, I want to create a Responsive site THE EASY WAY. And I want WYSIWYG. Indeed, WYSIWYG is what led me to Freeway back in 1999, in the Freeway 2 days. Freeway has also been great for traditional table based layouts, but I never figured out how to create a Responsive Site in Freeway EASILY (for brain dead people like me).

Best,

James Wages

Thomas Kimmich

22 Jul 2016, 8:17 am

The only valid point I see is, that it is this audience responsible for the disastrous end - you and me to be pedant. And on plus, I see an audience haven’t got the balls to speak it out loud!

Rather than discussing stupid requests on this TalkList for years (tables, hover, positioning …) it would have been much better to talk “progressive enhancement (ever heard of flexbox?)”. For the sake of those people we’re doing web design:

The billions of users out there having the damn right watching a well structured Page (or Site).

My aspiration is leaving the web a better place. This is just because I’m a designer. And a designer’s job is solving problems. This is neither a technical approach nor has it much to do with prettifying. It’s authoring and structuring. It’s about taking the inventory - it’s about simplifying.

Following this approach, one may wonder how less and rare you have to “adjust” your site.

I’m one of those “selling” my stuff. Because it isn’t a cheap video series of a manual. It is my intellectual property. And I’m proud of it.

I often tried to motivate the action writers to sell stuff - it’s damn fair. But we can’t persist on static, old library based stuff. Furthermore, it isn’t a sold action causing problems, it is the inability and ignorance of this audience using them successfully. Because using a “modern” action requires the knowledge of positioning - period.

“Things need to be much simpler!” was the gist of a recent talk.

Softpress died - isn’t it simple?

Cheers

Thomas

Thomas Kimmich

Kimmich DigitalMedia

http://www.kimmich-digitalmedia.com

T.+49(0)7404-914 384

Somewhere in the South of Germany

JDW

22 Jul 2016, 8:24 am

Thomas,

The demise of SoftPress is not that simple at all in light of how many DECADES they have been in business. Regardless of what we think or say, SOMETHING kept them in business that long. It’s just that SOMETHING decided it best to close the doors now. For all I know we could blame BREXIT. The timing is interesting, no?

—James Wages

Thomas Kimmich

22 Jul 2016, 11:33 am

On 22 Jul 2016, 8:24 am, JDW wrote:

Thomas,

The demise of SoftPress is not that simple at all …

It is: Decades of standstill and a self beloved audience! We do have people here in this Forum still working on FW3.5. Why? Because they still use Freehand as their “design” application and can’t afford to upgrade their iOS. Do you sell the same technology today that you did 10 years ago?

So BREXIT. A day AFTER the election, the most googled thing in UK was: “What does BREXIT mean and what happens now”.

It’s simply not possible to talk progressive enhanced with people like those. Sweet memories? Sure - no problem with it.

It has become clear that our prospects, both in terms of current revenue and new product development, are insufficient to sustain the company as a viable entity going forward.

For what I know (and I’m still not sure having the allowance to tell):

Softpress planned developing something entirely new. This new product wouldn’t be anything like Freeway was. In other words:

Not to use for the uppermost parts of you.

So it’s damn fair not to collect money of an unaware audience to develop something unusable, isn’t it?

Web didn’t change for a long time. But somewhere in 2000, with introducing CSS3 things rapidly changed. late 2011 introducing breakpoints within the @media query - 2012 Flexbox. Revolution or Evolution?

I call it a “Growing Web”. And I was for years the pain in your butts. Not for my own satiation - just because I knew what happens.

Keep this in mind when you enter other audiences and new products.

Cheers

Thomas

Thomas Kimmich

Kimmich DigitalMedia

http://www.kimmich-digitalmedia.com

T.+49(0)7404-914 384

Somewhere in the South of Germany

Tim Plumb

22 Jul 2016, 12:44 pm

Hi Walter, I’ve often ‘peeked over the fence’ at the RapidWeaver add-ons market and wondered how a similar model would have either benefitted or killed Freeway. For me Actions and the extended options were the two things that kelp the application alive for as long as it did. Both of these, even still today, allow you to push the application into places and to do things that it wasn’t designed to do. Without those I think I would have stopped using Freeway long ago.

I think the biggest difference I’d seen between the two communities (and this is just my observation) is the drive on Freeway Talk to foster a ‘give back’ eco-system where users want to solve not only their own site building issues but those of their peers as well. I’m sure that that also exists over at RW as well but I certainly see more people using that need as a way to drive sales. The RW community is a vast one and the appeal to create a plug-in (even at low cost) to market to the thousands of active users must be strong one.

I’ve only ever sold four Actions out of the many dozens that I’ve written and these were typically a lot more complex that the majority of ’shoot from the hip’ quick solutions that I’d done before. The Mals Actions (for example) started out as a ‘quick project’ but ended up taking many, many hours of research, testing, documentation and support to get working. Just on the support side of things those Actions probably didn’t bring enough revenue to pay for the hours I spent trying to make the shopping carts users invariably wanted to create. They all got made and they all worked as expected but each one was different to the last one.

I agree that most Actions were free but from what I recall most Action authors had at least one Action they were selling at one time or another.

I would say that over the 15 years I’ve been selling Actions they have certainly paid for themselves and the hosting but I’d be lying if I said it was a viable revenue stream. If nothing else it gave me an insight into how users worked with Freeway and the day-to-day issues they faced. For that alone it was all worth it. Regards, Tim.

On 22 Jul 2016, at 03:21, Walter Lee Davis <[email protected]> wrote:

I wonder what would have happened — seriously — if I had chosen to charge for my Actions. Paul and Tim did, and I don’t know how the economics of it worked out, nor do I have any decent comparison between number of users. But I wonder if the simple fact that I was lazy, and didn’t charge (because I didn’t want to set up a commerce site, and didn’t want to feel beholden to my customers for support). I know that most of the other people who wrote and distributed Actions didn’t charge for theirs either.

What would the Freeway ecosystem look like if it wasn’t expected that all this codified knowledge was free?

Tim Plumb - Experienced Freeway designer for hire

FreewayActions.com - Freeware and commercial Actions for Freeway Express & Pro

FreewayStyle.com - Free Freeway templates and parts to download, use and explore

Todd

22 Jul 2016, 3:12 pm

I often wondered that myself over the years.

Todd Office (Chicago): 312.212.3955 https://qreativ.space/articles/web-design/softpress-abruptly-shuts-down.html

I wonder what would have happened — seriously — if I had chosen to charge for my Actions.

Andries Kuipers

22 Jul 2016, 7:58 pm

For everyone in search for an alternative to make simple responsive sites quite easily, without coding: take a look at ‘Sparkle’ at http://sparkle.cx/ It does a remarkable job. And it surprises me not to have more heart about it.

Andries

2016-07-22 17:10 GMT+02:00 Todd <[email protected]>:

I often wondered that myself over the years.

Todd Office (Chicago): 312.212.3955

https://qreativ.space/articles/web-design/softpress-abruptly-shuts-down.html

I wonder what would have happened — seriously — if I had chosen to charge for my Actions.

Andries Kuipers

22 Jul 2016, 8:00 pm

For everyone in search for an alternative to make simple responsive sites quite easily, without coding: take a look at ‘Sparkle’ at http://sparkle.cx/ It does a remarkable job. And it surprises me not to have heard more about it.

Andries

2016-07-22 17:10 GMT+02:00 Todd <[email protected]>:

I often wondered that myself over the years.

Todd Office (Chicago): 312.212.3955

https://qreativ.space/articles/web-design/softpress-abruptly-shuts-down.html

I wonder what would have happened — seriously — if I had chosen to charge for my Actions.

Carla

22 Jul 2016, 8:38 pm

Just my 2 cents..

I don’t understand why some are searching elsewhere for web design applications…If you took the time to learn responsive inline design using the amazing Freeway Pro, and can create your own wrappers/containers using % etc. then I assume we can continue using this application…. or am I missing something….

Iain Mackenzie

22 Jul 2016, 8:51 pm

Yes, you are missing something in my opinion. Freeway is no longer supported. Have you tried it on 10.12 Sierra?

Carla

22 Jul 2016, 8:52 pm

No I don’t have Sierra… but I was told that FW7 will work on Sierra

Carla

22 Jul 2016, 8:54 pm

Ian This is from Joe Billings “FreewayTalk and the KnowledgeBase will be available indefinitely. As far as I know right now, Freeway works fine in MacOS 10.12 Sierra.”

Trey Yancy

22 Jul 2016, 8:56 pm

In my experience, Freeway’s implementation of responsive is problematic. Sometimes things will work perfectly, then the next time you launch, something that was fine when you saved and quit may suddenly jump out of place. I’ve also had to repeatedly set something to the master settings when something else changes (like changing a page wrapper height, then a fixed height banner wrapper may - or may not - suddenly have the bottom cut off. (Not a user error.) Plus, with complex items, things can easily go haywire. If someone wants to see a gorgeous implementation of responsive, they should check out Tumult Hype. This is precisely the way that Freeway should work.

Iain Mackenzie

22 Jul 2016, 8:57 pm

I’m not prepared to break the NDA, but there is a public beta, so try it yourself.

billy kimmel

22 Jul 2016, 9:10 pm

The one thing that no one seems to address is the need for CMS. I have used Max’s Web Yep Suite for years and it works beautifully with Freeway. As far as I know it works with Rapid Weaver so that is probably where I will go. I find more and more that new clients insist on being able to to editing their websites on their own. That is just what people want now because they see all of these cheap build your own commercials on TV. I love having the revenue from master my cleats sites but those days seem to be numbered.

Billy

JDW

23 Jul 2016, 12:30 am

Carla,

LOGIC should help you understand. It doesn’t matter if Freeway works fine under Sierra insofar as Sierra will not be the last MacOS. A year hence yet another MacOS will come on the scene, and what of Freeway compatibility then? It’s easy for some people to say, “Well, I just won’t upgrade my OS then.” And if you never update your OS, then you have a valid point — Freeway will last as long as that computer does. But MOST PEOPLE do upgrade, at least at some point.

What this means is, intelligent people PLAN AHEAD. I expect it would take me months to learn a new app, and then how many months would it take me to rebuild my big sites in that app? So you see, planning a year in advance is logical and has sound reason behind it.


As to the demise of SoftPress, anti-Freeway articles like the following certainly contributed to it to some degree:

http://www.macworld.com/article/2984967/software-web/web-design-review-roundup-our-favorite-mac-apps-for-building-a-website.html

(Also note in that article how they rank EverWeb above Sparkle and even above RapidWeaver.)

—James Wages

Carla

23 Jul 2016, 12:46 am

Thx James but using a app like Everweb drag and drop would make feel like a fraud web designer… ( no insult intended) I have to design inline after all I have learned thus far

..but thx for the input….. I will have to figure something out for sure ….. but for now…..Ill have to speak with my coder friends

JDW

23 Jul 2016, 12:51 am

Carla,

Don’t speak too long with those coder friends. Code will alter your right brain. :-)


FREEWAY

“For those who don’t see the world as code.”

John Cooper

23 Jul 2016, 3:06 am

People sometimes ask me to recommend a web design program or show them how to use FW. But even though I’ve been using FW for years I have always declined to show anyone and I have never recommended i. This rather sad really, and it’s probably, because it takes too long to learn (months, years?). I’d also be embarrassed to excuse the single Undo, and the, still occasional, crashes.

But Sparkle looks like it can be learned in half an hour!

Carla, this is why some are searching elsewhere for web design applications. It appears to be everything that FW, unfortunately, could never have been. Thank you Andries for finding it.

JDW

23 Jul 2016, 3:48 am

John Cooper,

I personally think Freeway is still the most intuitive app out there FOR TABLE BASED LAYOUTS. The very mention of tables is a heinous crime worthy of burning at the stake for the Responsive Designers among use, but what I say is nevertheless the truth. I love Freeway for legacy layouts and would never in a million years use another app for that. But we all know the web these days is Responsive or going Responsive. And for that, Freeway never appealed to the web design newbie or even to people like me who have used Freeway since 1999. Sure, many people surpassed me and they love to gloat about that. More power to them. I’m stupid. I’m a dummy. I admit that. And that’s why the old SoftPress motto appealed to me: “For those (James Wages) who don’t see the world as code.” But to get things done in Freeway, modern things, you need a lot of code and fiddling. I hate that.

But even though Sparkle looks like it can be learned in 30 minutes, can I accomplish the same in Sparkle as I have been doing in Freeway? I must admit I am skeptical. And is Sparkle better than the other app Macworld was pitching? And what of Rapid Weaver? Rapid Weaver + Stacks + Foundation looks to beat them all, except on long term cost.

But since my sites are still in a legacy table-based format, I am still happily using Freeway. But as I have been saying in this thread, a year or so from now, Freeway may no longer work and are we really going to forgo OS updates only to keep using Freeway for table-based layout? I think that would be rather silly, which is why I, like so many of you, and exploring other possibilities.

—James Wages

Daniel

23 Jul 2016, 4:24 am

I noticed that Xara Web Designer 365 Premium hasn’t been mentioned as another option. I originally came across Xara software several years ago after searching for a good graphics and photography application.

Xara Photo and Graphic Designer is the other title that I use for photo editing work. I also do quite a bit of HDR photography on both Mac and Windows. Recently I installed Bootcamp so I could use several very good apps including Xara in particular.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Serif comes out with a web design application for the Mac in the future as that company has recently discontinued WebPlus on the Windows platform.

I am quite shocked about the situation with Softpress. Best wishes to all the staff and everyone in their future work.

Daniel

23 Jul 2016, 4:26 am

Here is the link http://www.xara.com/eu/

Jim Feeney

23 Jul 2016, 4:41 am

What I’m looking for is another application with which I can download my website from the internet, rework it some, then upload it from the new application.

My website (in footer), which I’ve painstakingly built in Freeway over the past 12 years, has about 375 mobile-friendly pages. I’m 73 years old, fairly low tech, and don’t have enough remaining energy to tackle reconstructing my website one page at a time in new software. The thought of that is intimidating and probably not doable at this point in my life.

I appeal to those of you who know other applications well: are there any other than Dreamweaver that will do what I need? That is, allow me to download my entire website from the internet and reupload it from the new software?

If not, it appears my only option is to continue with Freeway 7 Pro until some future Mac OS upgrade becomes incompatible with Freeway. Thanks for any options or advice you might offer.

Oregon, USA | 2017 iMac 21.5” | 3.6 GHz Intel Core i7 | 16 GB RAM | OS 10.13.6 | User since Fwy 3.5 | https://www.jimfeeney.org

MarkSmith

23 Jul 2016, 11:52 am

Hi Jim,

Depending on how much reworking you need to do, it may be worth having a look at Pinegrow. I had some success loading an entire site built in Freeway and Pinegrow rendered it perfectly, allowing me to make changes to text/images but anything more than that would require some coding.

http://pinegrow.com/

Thomas made a video showing how this is done (it was this video that encouraged me to have a go)

https://vimeo.com/175144442

Mark

On 23 Jul 2016, 4:41 am, Jim Feeney wrote:

What I’m looking for is another application with which I can download my website from the internet, rework it some, then upload it from the new application.

My website (in footer), which I’ve painstakingly built in Freeway over the past 12 years, has about 375 mobile-friendly pages. I’m 73 years old, fairly low tech, and don’t have enough remaining energy to tackle reconstructing my website one page at a time in new software. The thought of that is intimidating and probably not doable at this point in my life.

I appeal to those of you who know other applications well: are there any other than Dreamweaver that will do what I need? That is, allow me to download my entire website from the internet and reupload it from the new software?

If not, it appears my only option is to continue with Freeway 7 Pro until some future Mac OS upgrade becomes incompatible with Freeway. Thanks for any options or advice you might offer.

Mark Smith

Website: http://www.mpscreative.co.uk

JDW

23 Jul 2016, 2:12 pm

I just finished watching Thomas’ video, and thank you, Thomas, for making that. Pinegrow may not help you grow a forest in your yard, but it seems to be the “HTML importer” we have all wanted for YEARS in Freeway. That doesn’t necessarily make it a perfect choice for editing though, and I’ll need to look at the Trial more closely to assess its merits.

I should add to this discussion by saying that we need to take care with our “Freeway replacement.” This evening I discovered the Macaw app for the first time and noted how very intuitive it is AND it apparently creates very lean and beautiful code too. Then I looked closer and found the company is now closing its doors, having sold out to InVision.

Clearly, choosing a company that’s been around for a while and has a growing user base would likely be our safest bet. Not sure about the company behind Pinegrow, but RapidWeaver has been around for a long time and doesn’t appear to be headed into closure anytime soon. And I must admit that Joe Workman is really a working man with all the video tutorials he’s handcrafted to get users up and running. Blocs and Sparkle apps have their own unique WYSIWYG appeal. They just haven’t been around as long, so who knows how long they’ll stick around.

—James Wages

LINKS:

http://blocsapp.com

http://sparkle.cx

http://pinegrow.com

https://foundation.joeworkman.net

MACWORLD Review of Sparkle 1.2.3, with links to review of Blocs 1.3 (noting that both apps are at version 2.0 now):

http://www.macworld.com/article/2940373/sparkle-1-2-3-review-mac-friendly-web-design-app-needs-a-bit-more-luster.html

Todd

23 Jul 2016, 4:29 pm

I’m kind of surprised Macaw was picked up by InVision, though they do seem to have their meaty paws in everything. (They also won’t stop sending me emails either, even after contacting “customer service”. Pricks)

After the considerable hype Macaw really turned out to kind of a dud. I’m glad I never bought a license. I’m curious to see what InVision (pricks) does with it.

Todd Office (Chicago): 312.212.3955 https://qreativ.space

DeltaDave

23 Jul 2016, 4:55 pm

After the considerable hype Macaw really turned out to kind of a dud. I’m glad I never bought a license.

I was a Kickstarter backer of a very promising app that really failed to deliver and seems to have been repurposed for another end.

Disappointed to say the least!

D

Glasgow, Scotland

iMac 27 5K El Cap and Pro Final

marka

23 Jul 2016, 5:34 pm

” Blocs and Sparkle apps have their own unique WYSIWYG appeal. They just haven’t been around as long, so who knows how long they’ll stick around.”

That was my concern as well. When I saw that the Freeway youtube video on making a responsive site had 30K views, and Caleb’s backdraft had almost 5 (numbers which to me would have indicated a healthy business for SoftPress) it seemed futile to assume or expect anything about any of them. Maybe it was thirty people looking at that video one thousand times.

I went with Sparkle just because it serves me well. All I have are slide shows, video and audio files so simple was going to be fine. In the end I just picked what I liked and will hope for the best.

I kind of wanted to see their financials before diving in, however…

iMac, Freeway Pro

www.pantherpeakbindery.com

John Cooper

23 Jul 2016, 5:48 pm

JDW: thanks for the thoughtful response.

I too got used to FW for the box model which was responsive enough, at least for screen size, long before breakpoints. But Sparkle appears to do all of that intuitively in a desktop publishing way, with none of the myriad settings such as Fixed% width, Clear, Float. It even allows overlapping elements easily.

As for whether you can accomplish the same in Sparkle, see here: http://sparklecafe.com

Also built-in are Google fonts, Analytics, Multiple Undo, Styles that don’t create erroneous Style1 &c., “Master” elements that appear on each page or section, and much more. The UI is even in one window which I always wanted out of FW—which works like any other native Mac app in split screen, and IMPORTANTLY supports File/Revert to previous versions.

I too was shocked and sad at the news. I’m grateful, in a way, for the how FW made me work at understanding the web (but never code!) and my first thought was I might have to give up designing new web site. But, like Ern, its demise has come as a blessing in disguise as I morph into a more user-friendly world. As someone once said: the operation was a success but the patient died.

JDW

24 Jul 2016, 7:04 am

Thomas, I know in your video you expressed mild dislike for Sparkle, but the more I read, the more my right brain really likes those guys…

http://sparkle.cx/blog/html-and-css-are-holding-the-web-back.html

http://youtu.be/oy04qi8NB-8

James Wages

Thomas Kimmich

24 Jul 2016, 4:38 pm

On 24 Jul 2016, 7:04 am, JDW wrote:

Thomas, I know in your video you expressed mild dislike for Sparkle …

Yep - indeed I did. And the promo video was only one of the reasons for.

… but the more I read, the more my right brain really likes those guys…

I’m not wasting a second in products, mocking and denying the “language” it is built on. Just for the sake of playing the Code Nanny for some “clients”?

Though I didn’t expect much anyway.

Cheers

Thomas

Thomas Kimmich

Kimmich DigitalMedia

http://www.kimmich-digitalmedia.com

T.+49(0)7404-914 384

Somewhere in the South of Germany

JDW

25 Jul 2016, 2:06 am

Friends, I had a chance to evaluate Sparkle. You can read about that experience in the following new thread:

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170179

Best,

James Wages

vloerengilde

25 Jul 2016, 6:15 pm

me thinks it isn’t the last we didi hear from freeway or whatever name it will have in the future

www.vloerengilde.nl

Trey Yancy

25 Jul 2016, 7:48 pm

Re: Sparkle I’ve checked it out and, while it may be a great solution for many, It doesn’t have anywhere near enough pro level features to be a viable alternative for me. My sites are intended to drive businesses having average unit sales of around $4,000.00 a pop. To be frank, however, once responsive became a key issue, I shifted my use of FW to creating a shell with menus, nested images within text elements, and a ton of HTML5 content created elsewhere, so I no longer need to stretch FW to the limit. If someone needs a tool to put together a site without bells and whistles, Sparkle is a good solution.

MarkSmith

25 Jul 2016, 9:29 pm

I think I might agree with this (or maybe I’m just clutching at straws!)

A line in Joe’s original post:

“…Who knows what comes next?”

Hmm…..

On 25 Jul 2016, 6:15 pm, vloerengilde wrote:

me thinks it isn’t the last we didi hear from freeway or whatever name it will have in the future

Mark Smith

Website: http://www.mpscreative.co.uk

JDW

26 Jul 2016, 12:23 am

Trey, you may want to jump on over to our Sparkle thread and define what the “bells and whistles” are:

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170179

Seriously, when I have time, I will be going through Freeway’s entire feature set for a comparison of what’s missing. I have a gentleman who’s been emailing me off list daily on that point. A lot of people in our Freeway community are seeking a Freeway alternative. RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation + Joe W.’s Help Videos looks great. I simply am scrutinizing Sparkle now because if it is a viable solution, the overall cost would be much, much cheaper.

—James Wages

Trevreav

26 Jul 2016, 8:06 am

Hi James, yes I’ve been following it with interest. I had a quick look at the Sparkle website but haven’t tried it as yet

Thanks Trev

On 26 Jul 2016, at 01:23, JDW <[email protected]> wrote:

Trey, you may want to jump on over to our Sparkle thread and define what the “bells and whistles” are:

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170179

Seriously, when I have time, I will be going through Freeway’s entire feature set for a comparison of what’s missing. I have a gentleman who’s been emailing me off list daily on that point. A lot of people in our Freeway community are seeking a Freeway alternative. RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation + Joe W.’s Help Videos looks great. I simply am scrutinizing Sparkle now because if it is a viable solution, the overall cost would be much, much cheaper.

—James Wages

All the best

TrevReav

Ho’way the lads

Andries Kuipers

27 Jul 2016, 12:00 am

In addition to earlier posts, as far if I’m being well informed: Pinegrow and Macaw are both apps for making a template, protoptype or mockup. They have no intention to build complete sites with it. The newer Macaw Scarlet (the original Macaw is renamed Indigo) has more and better features for building complete sites. Andries

2016-07-26 10:06 GMT+02:00 Trevor Reaveley <[email protected]>:

Hi James, yes I’ve been following it with interest. I had a quick look at the Sparkle website but haven’t tried it as yet

Thanks Trev

On 26 Jul 2016, at 01:23, JDW <[email protected]> wrote:

Trey, you may want to jump on over to our Sparkle thread and define what the “bells and whistles” are:

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170179

Seriously, when I have time, I will be going through Freeway’s entire feature set for a comparison of what’s missing. I have a gentleman who’s been emailing me off list daily on that point. A lot of people in our Freeway community are seeking a Freeway alternative. RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation + Joe W.’s Help Videos looks great. I simply am scrutinizing Sparkle now because if it is a viable solution, the overall cost would be much, much cheaper.

—James Wages

JDW

27 Jul 2016, 12:20 am

Andries, Macaw is dead. The developers sold out and the buyer doesn’t look like a company that’s interested in a web design app.

http://macaw.co/invision/

So for that category of web design app, you are left with Sparkle or Blocs. (Sorry, MUSE may be in the category too, but there’s no way I’ll ever recommend a subscription based app. Never.)

James Wages

Andries Kuipers

27 Jul 2016, 2:28 am

Hm, I think you’re correct James. Perhaps not dead for sure, but it is fighting for its Macawlive on the Intensive Care…. And if the right surgeons are on duty…

I tried Blocs also this evening. I was surprised for its also ease of use and rather pleasant responsiveness instead of being adaptive like FW or Webydo. Certainly not complet. No built-in FTP, poor color options, a little difficult way to import PDF’s and I can’t change paragraph alignment at smaller breakpoints without affecrting the others.

But the program is stable, feels solid and is frequently updated the last couple off months I saw. They’re working hard to get it better every time. And.. they have tooltips ! ;-)

What is excactly the problem to not use a subscription based app? That it will never be yours? Or you’re committed to Adobe for years? But I’ve been sticked to Adobe for more then 20 years with Illustrator, Photoshop…. and to be honest: I’m very happy with their software.

And if it is really a big problem, (lets get this clear: I’m not promoting it) there is also a ‘gray circuit’ to buy software a lot cheaper.

2016-07-27 2:20 GMT+02:00 JDW <[email protected]>:

Andries, Macaw is dead. The developers sold out and the buyer doesn’t look like a company that’s interested in a web design app.

http://macaw.co/invision/

So for that category of web design app, you are left with Sparkle or Blocs. (Sorry, MUSE may be in the category too, but there’s no way I’ll ever recommend a subscription based app. Never.)

James Wages

JDW

27 Jul 2016, 3:03 am

Andries, I am hoping Serif will improve Affinity Designer and Photo to such an extent no one ever needs Photoshop and Illustrator again. I own both apps and don’t use them right now, but I paid for them to support the developer’s efforts. With each passing version, they look more and more promising. I also contribute in their forums to suggest new features. Thankfully, they listen and implement! Suffice it to say, I hate subscription models. I want to buy an app and then decide if I want to upgrade to the next version or skip a version or 2. With a subscription model, you can’t do that. It’s all forced down your throat while your wallet slowly gets drained. No thanks.

I’ve not checked out the Blocs trial since I am still giving Sparkle a thorough exam. Maybe later. But thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. Glad to hear about the tooltips too! :-)

—James Wages

Norm

27 Jul 2016, 8:32 am

Hey Andries,

My name is Norm, I’m the creator of Blocs. Just want to follow up on your coments on the limitations of Blocs.

Blocs has 2 levels of controls, the basics in the sidebar and the more complex custom classes. The options in the sidebar let you get all your basic styling in place along with adding animations and tooltips. At the top of the sidebar is a section labelled custom classes, typing into this field and hitting return adds a class to an object and a tag to the classes field, clicking this tag in the classes field opens up the far more advanced class options that let you control pretty much anything.

Opening and editing these classes at the different breakpoints lets you create a truly unique experience on each breakpoint. The colour settings here support opacity and you can align type based on breakpoint too.

You can read all about custom classes and styling your site per breakpoint here: http://help.blocsapp.com/custom-classes/

Enjoy exploring Blocs.

Norm

MarkSmith

27 Jul 2016, 9:01 am

James, a word in defence of the Adobe subscription model if I may:

You are obviously not a fan, which is well documented on here - more or less in every one of your posts ;)

However, as a professional business it REALLY helps cashflow. Affinity photo, although a great piece of software, is nowhere close to being able to offer the same facilities as the Photoshop/Lightroom combination and in my opinion it will be a long time before it can.

The adobe bundle, at £8.70 a month saves me investing (an awful lot of) cash upfront. Given that the best price for both, before cc, was about £700… well you do the maths! Some of the updates you say are “forced down your throat” have saved me an enormous amount of time (therefore money too) so, for me, it is excellent.

There is not a single day goes by when I don’t use Photoshop, Lightroom and Illustrator for MOST of my working day. I do have Affinity Designer and I agree it is a superb piece of software given the price however, it simply does not have some of the features of Illustrator that I use every time I open the software.

In case you are wondering, I do not work for, nor am I associated with, Adobe in any way but I just wanted to point out that your assumption that I would never need (or want) to use Photoshop and Illustrator again is wide of the mark.

I would not normally post a reply like this but your insistance on mentioning it almost every time you post prompted me to perhaps suggest that there is an alternative view to yours and your apparent assumption that we ALL feel the same as you (“I am hoping Serif will improve Affinity Designer and Photo to such an extent no one ever needs Photoshop and Illustrator again) is simply wrong and I wish that you would stop assuming that everyone feels the same.

In my eyes, It gives all the other things you say less credibility.

Best wishes

Mark

On 27 Jul 2016, 3:03 am, JDW wrote:

Andries, I am hoping Serif will improve Affinity Designer and Photo to such an extent no one ever needs Photoshop and Illustrator again. I own both apps and don’t use them right now, but I paid for them to support the developer’s efforts. With each passing version, they look more and more promising. I also contribute in their forums to suggest new features. Thankfully, they listen and implement! Suffice it to say, I hate subscription models. I want to buy an app and then decide if I want to upgrade to the next version or skip a version or 2. With a subscription model, you can’t do that. It’s all forced down your throat while your wallet slowly gets drained. No thanks.

I’ve not checked out the Blocs trial since I am still giving Sparkle a thorough exam. Maybe later. But thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. Glad to hear about the tooltips too! :-)

—James Wages

Mark Smith

Website: http://www.mpscreative.co.uk

JDW

27 Jul 2016, 9:54 am

Norm,

I just created a new thread dedicated to Blocs. And if you don’t mind, I have a question for you there. Better we discuss Blocs there than further clog this Fin thread.

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170255


Mark,

The subscription model is great for people who always want to pay for the latest version, I agree. But here in Japan, there are a lot of companies still using CS4 and earlier. Sometimes you want to send them a CS6 file but they ask you to down-save it! And not many are using CC simply because people here really hate subscriptions. Companies here really try to save pennies where possible, forcing employees to use the same software until they absolutely positively have to upgrade. So even though the one-time cost is big for them, their “cash flow” is actually better with a non-subscription model insofar as a lot less cash flows out of their hands if they don’t commonly upgrade but once every blue moon.

And while I agree the Affinity apps won’t be an Adobe replacement for a while (consider well how long Photoshop and Illustrator have been available — since the 80’s!), Serif has a lot of work to do. However, if you look at the feature set now, they have a lot of major features found in the Adobe apps. So I don’t think it will take Serif 20 years to match Adobe. Probably 5 years hence Serif will have caught up, offering 90% of the major features Adobe users expect. And to ensure that happens I shall remain vigilant in their forums making suggestions. You should too. For you never know when you will want to exit that subscription model. And when you do exit an Adobe subscription, all you’ll have remaining is a file viewer.

Best,

James Wages

David Ledger

27 Jul 2016, 10:00 am

On 27 Jul 2016, at 10:01, MarkSmith wrote:

James, a word in defence of the Adobe subscription model if I may:

You are obviously not a fan, which is well documented on here - more or less in every one of your posts ;)

However, as a professional business it REALLY helps cashflow. Affinity photo, although a great piece of software, is nowhere close to being able to offer the same facilities as the Photoshop/Lightroom combination and in my opinion it will be a long time before it can.

The adobe bundle, at £8.70 a month saves me investing (an awful lot of) cash upfront. Given that the best price for both, before cc, was about £700… well you do the maths! Some of the updates you say are “forced down your throat” have saved me an enormous amount of time (therefore money too) so, for me, it is excellent.

There is not a single day goes by when I don’t use Photoshop, Lightroom and Illustrator for MOST of my working day. I do have Affinity Designer and I agree it is a superb piece of software given the price however, it simply does not have some of the features of Illustrator that I use every time I open the software.

In case you are wondering, I do not work for, nor am I associated with, Adobe in any way but I just wanted to point out that your assumption that I would never need (or want) to use Photoshop and Illustrator again is wide of the mark.

I would not normally post a reply like this but your insistance on mentioning it almost every time you post prompted me to perhaps suggest that there is an alternative view to yours and your apparent assumption that we ALL feel the same as you (“I am hoping Serif will improve Affinity Designer and Photo to such an extent no one ever needs Photoshop and Illustrator again) is simply wrong and I wish that you would stop assuming that everyone feels the same.

In my eyes, It gives all the other things you say less credibility.

Best wishes

Mark

There’s no need for what James says about the subscription model to reduce the credibility of what else he says. He also said some days ago “I’ve always done website work in my free time. It’s not my full time job.”. Therefore the cost spreading aspect does not necessarily apply. He hasn’t (I don’t think) commented on a real alternative purchase price, probably because there isn’t one now. I do less web page work than James, and for me the cost of upgrades to Freeway isn’t ‘worth’ it - I’m only up to date because of support for Softpress, never having even opened 7. I mainly use WP and TextWranger for what little I do. No Adobe product is worth the cost either way for me, I’m not in that world. And James isn’t in the subscription model world.

David

Trevreav

27 Jul 2016, 10:23 am

But a lot of us are David, and both views are relevant… Trev

There’s no need for what James says about the subscription model to reduce the credibility of what else he says. He also said some days ago “I’ve always done website work in my free time. It’s not my full time job.”. Therefore the cost spreading aspect does not necessarily apply. He hasn’t (I don’t think) commented on a real alternative purchase price, probably because there isn’t one now. I do less web page work than James, and for me the cost of upgrades to Freeway isn’t ‘worth’ it - I’m only up to date because of support for Softpress, never having even opened 7. I mainly use WP and TextWranger for what little I do. No Adobe product is worth the cost either way for me, I’m not in that world. And James isn’t in the subscription model world.

David

All the best

TrevReav

Ho’way the lads

MarkSmith

27 Jul 2016, 10:25 am

David

If James or anyone else doesn’t want to enter that world, that’s fine, but nor should they assume that ALL of us feel that same (which is what James actually said in his post)

If it’s not for him that’s fine, but that fact that he is almost on the verge of being dogmatic, for me, lessens the credibility because the perception is that it is not balanced - and after all, perception is reality.

For me, the equivalent cost of 3 cups of costa coffee a month is well worth it but I won’t (and will never) assume that’s the case for EVERYONE.

I was just introducing some balance to the discussion by pointing out the advantages of a subscription model because it introduces an enormous amount of affordability for small businesses to stay current. In my situation, there have been a few times when updates have saved time and money, increasing my profitability through spending less time editing. This has far outweighed the cost of the subscription.

Mark

Mark Smith

Website: http://www.mpscreative.co.uk

MarkSmith

27 Jul 2016, 10:37 am

James

I completely get that but the point I was responding to was your assumption that your own dislike of the subscription model was shared by everyone!

And your assumptions continue…

(“And when you do exit an Adobe subscription, all you’ll have remaining is a file viewer.”)

That is what is losing you credibility in MY eyes. It’s bordering on dogmatic.

Mark

On 27 Jul 2016, 9:54 am, JDW wrote:

Norm,

I just created a new thread dedicated to Blocs. And if you don’t mind, I have a question for you there. Better we discuss Blocs there than further clog this Fin thread.

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170255


Mark,

The subscription model is great for people who always want to pay for the latest version, I agree. But here in Japan, there are a lot of companies still using CS4 and earlier. Sometimes you want to send them a CS6 file but they ask you to down-save it! And not many are using CC simply because people here really hate subscriptions. Companies here really try to save pennies where possible, forcing employees to use the same software until they absolutely positively have to upgrade. So even though the one-time cost is big for them, their “cash flow” is actually better with a non-subscription model insofar as a lot less cash flows out of their hands if they don’t commonly upgrade but once every blue moon.

And while I agree the Affinity apps won’t be an Adobe replacement for a while (consider well how long Photoshop and Illustrator have been available — since the 80’s!), Serif has a lot of work to do. However, if you look at the feature set now, they have a lot of major features found in the Adobe apps. So I don’t think it will take Serif 20 years to match Adobe. Probably 5 years hence Serif will have caught up, offering 90% of the major features Adobe users expect. And to ensure that happens I shall remain vigilant in their forums making suggestions. You should too. For you never know when you will want to exit that subscription model. And when you do exit an Adobe subscription, all you’ll have remaining is a file viewer.

Best,

James Wages

Mark Smith

Website: http://www.mpscreative.co.uk

Andries Kuipers

27 Jul 2016, 11:04 am

@Norm Thnx for making things more clearly! It was late in the evening and I was just fiddling around with a fake site. As said before, Blocs feels solid and rigid and my first opinion was that is misses some finesse. But there’s more to explore as you explained, but my eyes weren’t helpful anymore in the middle of the night.

What I actually noticed: Blocs looks through the dark interface somewhat more professional, but Sparkle by the lighter interface looks fresher and easier to use. Like I need less digging or courage to achieve what I want. I have not made any comparison but this is a subconscious impression, pure a visual first impression, no verdict at all! Both programs stands out in the crowd.

Like many of us, we all want all options in a simple to use program. For a low price please ;-) In practice, I think that 80% of the users use only 30% of the capabilities of the software. Photoshop is also a good example of this. Only it feels good and save to have all the options available if necessary. It is also cool to tell clients all the possibilities what you can offer, but how many clients ask for it or want to use it. Let alone pay for it?

Bus as said, you are updating frequently Blocs to satisfy all your users, keep up the good work Norm!

Andries

2016-07-27 12:25 GMT+02:00 MarkSmith <[email protected]>:

David

If James or anyone else doesn’t want to enter that world, that’s fine, but nor should they assume that ALL of us feel that same (which is what James actually said in his post)

If it’s not for him that’s fine, but that fact that he is almost on the verge of being dogmatic, for me, lessens the credibility because the perception is that it is not balanced - and after all, perception is reality.

For me, the equivalent cost of 3 cups of costa coffee a month is well worth it but I won’t (and will never) assume that’s the case for EVERYONE.

I was just introducing some balance to the discussion by pointing out the advantages of a subscription model because it introduces an enormous amount of affordability for small businesses to stay current. In my situation, there have been a few times when updates have saved time and money, increasing my profitability through spending less time editing. This has far outweighed the cost of the subscription.

Mark

Andries Kuipers

27 Jul 2016, 11:16 am

@Mark I agree his point of view with the subscription model, I pay less than the years with CS before (and therefore rarely updated my software) but what is also the issue in the real, professional world: you have to deal with other companies, printers for example. So being compatible with your software AND up-to-date versions will give your workflow more smileys. Lets be honest, if you like it or not, Adobe’s software (esp. postscript) has given us all in the graphic world a tremendous productionboost. To our merit.

Andries

2016-07-27 13:04 GMT+02:00 <[email protected]>:

@Norm Thnx for making things more clearly! It was late in the evening and I was just fiddling around with a fake site. As said before, Blocs feels solid and rigid and my first opinion was that is misses some finesse. But there’s more to explore as you explained, but my eyes weren’t helpful anymore in the middle of the night.

What I actually noticed: Blocs looks through the dark interface somewhat more professional, but Sparkle by the lighter interface looks fresher and easier to use. Like I need less digging or courage to achieve what I want. I have not made any comparison but this is a subconscious impression, pure a visual first impression, no verdict at all! Both programs stands out in the crowd.

Like many of us, we all want all options in a simple to use program. For a low price please ;-) In practice, I think that 80% of the users use only 30% of the capabilities of the software. Photoshop is also a good example of this. Only it feels good and save to have all the options available if necessary.

It is also cool to tell clients all the possibilities what you can offer, but how many clients ask for it or want to use it. Let alone pay for it?

Bus as said, you are updating frequently Blocs to satisfy all your users, keep up the good work Norm!

Andries

2016-07-27 12:25 GMT+02:00 MarkSmith <[email protected]>:

David

If James or anyone else doesn’t want to enter that world, that’s fine, but nor should they assume that ALL of us feel that same (which is what James actually said in his post)

If it’s not for him that’s fine, but that fact that he is almost on the verge of being dogmatic, for me, lessens the credibility because the perception is that it is not balanced - and after all, perception is reality.

For me, the equivalent cost of 3 cups of costa coffee a month is well worth it but I won’t (and will never) assume that’s the case for EVERYONE.

I was just introducing some balance to the discussion by pointing out the advantages of a subscription model because it introduces an enormous amount of affordability for small businesses to stay current. In my situation, there have been a few times when updates have saved time and money, increasing my profitability through spending less time editing. This has far outweighed the cost of the subscription.

Mark

Andries Kuipers

27 Jul 2016, 11:25 am

@Mark I agree his point of view with the subscription model, I pay less than the years with CS before (and therefore rarely updated my software) but what is also the issue in the real, professional world: you have to deal with other companies, printers for example. So being compatible with your software AND up-to-date versions will give your workflow more smileys. Lets be honest, if you like it or not, Adobe’s software (esp. postscript) has given us all in the graphic world a tremendous productionboost. To our merit.

Andries

In addition to James’ point of view: I don’t have clients in the middle East. I work for companies in Western Europe, 98% Holland. My goal is efficiency. Time is money. I need software to get things nicely done, fast and good. In the Far East, wages are lower so the factor ‘labortime’ is probably different?

2016-07-27 13:04 GMT+02:00 <[email protected]>:

@Norm Thnx for making things more clearly! It was late in the evening and I was just fiddling around with a fake site. As said before, Blocs feels solid and rigid and my first opinion was that is misses some finesse. But there’s more to explore as you explained, but my eyes weren’t helpful anymore in the middle of the night.

What I actually noticed: Blocs looks through the dark interface somewhat more professional, but Sparkle by the lighter interface looks fresher and easier to use. Like I need less digging or courage to achieve what I want. I have not made any comparison but this is a subconscious impression, pure a visual first impression, no verdict at all! Both programs stands out in the crowd.

Like many of us, we all want all options in a simple to use program. For a low price please ;-) In practice, I think that 80% of the users use only 30% of the capabilities of the software. Photoshop is also a good example of this. Only it feels good and save to have all the options available if necessary.

It is also cool to tell clients all the possibilities what you can offer, but how many clients ask for it or want to use it. Let alone pay for it?

Bus as said, you are updating frequently Blocs to satisfy all your users, keep up the good work Norm!

Andries

2016-07-27 12:25 GMT+02:00 MarkSmith <[email protected]>:

David

If James or anyone else doesn’t want to enter that world, that’s fine, but nor should they assume that ALL of us feel that same (which is what James actually said in his post)

If it’s not for him that’s fine, but that fact that he is almost on the verge of being dogmatic, for me, lessens the credibility because the perception is that it is not balanced - and after all, perception is reality.

For me, the equivalent cost of 3 cups of costa coffee a month is well worth it but I won’t (and will never) assume that’s the case for EVERYONE.

I was just introducing some balance to the discussion by pointing out the advantages of a subscription model because it introduces an enormous amount of affordability for small businesses to stay current. In my situation, there have been a few times when updates have saved time and money, increasing my profitability through spending less time editing. This has far outweighed the cost of the subscription.

Mark

Andries Kuipers

27 Jul 2016, 11:39 am

Ha, its beginning to look like politics, I notice that in politics people who disagree with a particular situation, find that they have more right than those who are in agreement with the situation. Everyone works best in the way that suits him. Is my humble opinion.

2016-07-27 12:37 GMT+02:00 MarkSmith <[email protected]>:

James

I completely get that but the point I was responding to was your assumption that your own dislike of the subscription model was shared by everyone!

And your assumptions continue…

(“And when you do exit an Adobe subscription, all you’ll have remaining is a file viewer.”)

That is what is losing you credibility in MY eyes. It’s bordering on dogmatic.

Mark

On 27 Jul 2016, 9:54 am, JDW wrote:

Norm,

I just created a new thread dedicated to Blocs. And if you don’t mind, I have a question for you there. Better we discuss Blocs there than further clog this Fin thread.

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170255


Mark,

The subscription model is great for people who always want to pay for the latest version, I agree. But here in Japan, there are a lot of companies still using CS4 and earlier. Sometimes you want to send them a CS6 file but they ask you to down-save it! And not many are using CC simply because people here really hate subscriptions. Companies here really try to save pennies where possible, forcing employees to use the same software until they absolutely positively have to upgrade. So even though the one-time cost is big for them, their “cash flow” is actually better with a non-subscription model insofar as a lot less cash flows out of their hands if they don’t commonly upgrade but once every blue moon.

And while I agree the Affinity apps won’t be an Adobe replacement for a while (consider well how long Photoshop and Illustrator have been available — since the 80’s!), Serif has a lot of work to do. However, if you look at the feature set now, they have a lot of major features found in the Adobe apps. So I don’t think it will take Serif 20 years to match Adobe. Probably 5 years hence Serif will have caught up, offering 90% of the major features Adobe users expect. And to ensure that happens I shall remain vigilant in their forums making suggestions. You should too. For you never know when you will want to exit that subscription model. And when you do exit an Adobe subscription, all you’ll have remaining is a file viewer.

Best,

James Wages

Bootsie

27 Jul 2016, 12:27 pm

“Enjoy exploring Blocs. Norm”

Hi Norm, I started exploring Blocs, but after 7 days or so the trial was over. This is much, much to short for trying out everything. A 30 day trial would be great.

FW Pro 7.1.4 (Freeway user since 2006)

Blocs 2.4 (Blocs user since July 2016)

iMac 2009

MacMini 2014

OSX 10.12.5

sonjanna

27 Jul 2016, 12:34 pm
  • I agree Mark
  • well spoken Andries ;)

There is no right or wrong. Better or worse. It is only the needs that are different, so are the applications that one will choose. That’s all.

I am grateful that we - being altogether in a similar situation of the loss of FW - can share our ideas. Help each other. It supports so much. We should exchange our experiences here without judging a different approach. Btw Adobe subscription is the one for me too.

Hanna

german web/designer

David Ledger

27 Jul 2016, 12:55 pm

On 27 Jul 2016, at 11:23, Trevor Reaveley wrote:

But a lot of us are David, and both views are relevant… Trev

There’s no need for what James says about the subscription model to reduce the credibility of what else he says. He also said some days ago “I’ve always done website work in my free time. It’s not my full time job.”. Therefore the cost spreading aspect does not necessarily apply. He hasn’t (I don’t think) commented on a real alternative purchase price, probably because there isn’t one now. I do less web page work than James, and for me the cost of upgrades to Freeway isn’t ‘worth’ it - I’m only up to date because of support for Softpress, never having even opened 7. I mainly use WP and TextWranger for what little I do. No Adobe product is worth the cost either way for me, I’m not in that world. And James isn’t in the subscription model world.

David

Exactly. That’s why there’s no need for “It gives all the other things you say less credibility” about James.

On 27 Jul 2016, at 11:25, MarkSmith wrote:

If James or anyone else doesn’t want to enter that world, that’s fine, but nor should they assume that ALL of us feel that same (which is what James actually said in his post)

If it’s not for him that’s fine, but that fact that he is almost on the verge of being dogmatic, for me, lessens the credibility because the perception is that it is not balanced - and after all, perception is reality.

For me, the equivalent cost of 3 cups of costa coffee a month is well worth it but I won’t (and will never) assume that’s the case for EVERYONE.

I was just introducing some balance to the discussion by pointing out the advantages of a subscription model because it introduces an enormous amount of affordability for small businesses to stay current. In my situation, there have been a few times when updates have saved time and money, increasing my profitability through spending less time editing. This has far outweighed the cost of the subscription.

Mark

In this discussion James has always stressed “for him” just as my opinion is “for me”. It’s not a matter of “If James or anyone else doesn’t want to enter that world”, it’s that you’re in it as a full time web designer or you’re not. For a few years I was paid £400p/a for adding data to a FW site I designed on a monthly basis. Hardly the Adobe market. Everything else is low key and for free. I’ve earned my money with other skills, as, I presume, has James. People can only, truthfully and with knowledge, state what’s right for them from what they’ve tried.

Personally I applaud James for trying different products and reporting to us on how well they suit him.

David

MarkSmith

27 Jul 2016, 2:06 pm

And so do I David but there’s a big difference between “that doesn’t work for me” and “that won’t work for you either.”

Quote(s):

#"I am hoping Serif will improve Affinity Designer and Photo to such an extent *no one* ever needs Photoshop and Illustrator again."

It doesn’t reflect the views of everyone.

#"People can only, truthfully and with knowledge, state what’s right for them from what they’ve tried."

For ME (as I have said throughout this ) dogma loses people credibility. I wouldn’t be as presumptuous as to suggest you feel the same!

Mark

Mark Smith

Website: http://www.mpscreative.co.uk

Hoffkids

30 Jul 2016, 4:17 am

I wrote a whole long thank you and goodbye to Joe and Softpress, sent it, and it never went thru…. so maybe that is a sign.

Either way; Thank you for all you have done for me, my website and the 1000’s of students and families you have helped over the years.

Dave and Walt, I am forever grateful for all you have done for me and HOFFKIDS.com and the millions of tips and the time you have spent with me. You are so giving, and true educators!

Roxanne from Softpress was the 1st person I spoke to when looking into FW and she said it would all work out very well; and it did.

Good luck Joe, Richard, and the Softpress team. I know you will continue with greatness.

Thanks for an amazing 5 years of learning and site development.

Barry Hoffman

Long Island, New York, USA

MacBook Pro | Yosemite | FW Pro 6.1 (FW user since Dec 2011)

http://www.Hoffkids.com

Thomas

30 Jul 2016, 11:11 am

I’ve read a lot here in FIN. I’m with FWP since many years now. To be honest: it is not correct and it is not fair to just say “we’re done” from one day to another.

I know nothing about the reasons – they might be a few good ones to do that step – but it has nothing to do with good or let’s say professional behavior. I’am very disappointed about that.

www.piranha-ag.ch

David Ledger

30 Jul 2016, 7:09 pm

On 30 Jul 2016, at 12:11, Thomas wrote:

I’ve read a lot here in FIN. I’m with FWP since many years now. To be honest: it is not correct and it is not fair to just say “we’re done” from one day to another.

I know nothing about the reasons – they might be a few good ones to do that step – but it has nothing to do with good or let’s say professional behavior. I’am very disappointed about that.

They may have had no option. I’ve only been employed by one company that closed down under me - and that had a parent in another country that kept going, so there were people ultimately in charge. There was no time. There was even a secretary who had to type out her own redundancy notice. One day there is a company, the next there isn’t. No-one to tell people first (because it hasn’t happened and the staff don’t know) - or afterwards (because they’re not there). Joe (B) has told us something, but it’s quite likely that he wouldn’t be being paid at that time.

David

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Thomas

30 Jul 2016, 7:53 pm

David, thank you. I make one step back. As I said, it’s clear that they’ve had probably good reasons to end the company. And its clear that this usually goes along with some heavy pressure – and it hurts. Nevertheless they could have say something before it ends, that it ends… Best wishes to the Freeway Team for their future.

www.piranha-ag.ch