FreewayTalk

41 replies to this thread. Most Recent

Hoffkids

26 Mar 2018, 4:09 am

And there goes ADOBE MUSE...

Just spent 8 months working day and night on my website switched over from Freeway to Adobe MUSE and now MUSE is biting the dust,

unfucking real…

http://muse.adobe.com/product-announcement-intl.html

what is the answer????

this is too much!

Long Island, New York, USA

MacBook Pro | Yosemite | FW Pro 6.1 (FW user since Dec 2011)

http://www.Hoffkids.com

sonjanna

26 Mar 2018, 7:38 am

Thank you for sharing.

What a shock!!!

I have switched completely to Adobe Muse from FW for 1,5 years now, made my own and several client websites with it. Spend very much time in learning, payed for widget contributors, fought with it, but was very happy in the end. Free designing was easy. It fits very well in workflows with the adobe creative suite, I use InDesign and Illustrator a lot. Perfect. I was sure that the company would be STABLE this time. A big company. It is, but now they just stop the development of Muse???

And again, the question which app I should choose now? Again learn a new app as quickly as possible to be able to offer webdesign to clients? (this is my business together with grafik-design) Again tell clients that …

This is not small business friendly. On the contrary.

*** What is a close app to Adobe Muse? What do you think? *** I never thought that I would post this question here. I am stunned.

Hanna

german web/designer

sonjanna

26 Mar 2018, 9:17 am

Just a short notice. The widget developers of Muse-Themes are coming up with something new. I am not sure yet, if this is helping us though.

https://www.wocode.com https://visualarms.wistia.com/medias/kv464aaolb (Tool sneak preview)

german web/designer

FreewayPro_User

26 Mar 2018, 5:33 pm

It’s yet another example of why learning HTML / CSS / Javascript , continues to be the best investment someone working on the web can make for their future.

JDW

26 Mar 2018, 9:10 pm

Can’t wait to hear what the diehard defenders of Adobe rentware subscription model will say about this!

How aMUSEing!

sonjanna

27 Mar 2018, 6:26 am

*JDW

I use Adobe because I need to work in particular with InDesign, Illustrator and Acrobat. I am a web- but also a grafik-designer. I do a lot of print. I am not a fan of the Adobe model but there is not much of a choice when you work together with firms, partners, colleagues, printers and if you need decent tools. I found these there. Muse fittet in perfect after FW stopped. For me it worked well. But: Everybody must find his or her best solution with their tools and these are certainly and always different. I really don`t understand the fighting here in the forum. It is poor and unnecessary.

And: There is certainly no need to mock on people who experience THIS for the second time.

Hanna

german web/designer

JDW

27 Mar 2018, 7:09 am

I’ve been mocking MUSE for years. I feel no embarrassment for continuing it here, especially since this is a SoftPress forum, not an Adobe forum.

And I have no shame in saying subscription models are stupid, even if Adobe is making money, hand over fist, from you folks.

—James Wages

sonjanna

27 Mar 2018, 7:56 am

James, you can mock Muse or Adobe as long as you wish.

My impression is that you did not read my last post properly.

It is about people.

We all here never ever liked to turn the back on FW but had to and some found in this or in that app a new one. All well. Relax. We share experiences, help each other out, aren’t we?

I am thankful for Hoffkids post, so I was one of the first to know. (located in Germany)

Hanna

german web/designer

JDW

27 Mar 2018, 9:03 am

For what it’s worth, I am not mocking you and certainly not Hoffkids, with whom I have exchanged a number of emails privately. I know he was very impressed with MUSE from the get-go because he wrote to tell me so.

Software is useful, but it is not a human being. And while some may think I was mocking them by mocking a piece of mere software, that too would be incorrect. It is unfortunate for you MUSE users, I will agree. And that’s precisely why I’d either like to see a new, fabulously useful version of Freeway that can help me create responsive websites with tremendous ease, OR when Blocs matures to the point I find it useful, I could possibly go with that (no subscription required).

So even though I still use Freeway Pro 7 even to this very day, I have my eyes open on other web design apps. I am not a full time web designer. I merely design and maintain websites for my company. So my needs are quite different than many who visit this forum.

—James Wages

Andries Kuipers

28 Mar 2018, 1:39 am

I really think that if Freeway was a subscription based piece of software they probably haven’t gone broke last year. Adobe will come with another platform based on Spark and they face the same problem as Freeway/Softpress did: the continuing changes in webdevelopment, to keep pace with competitors is extremely tough and their Muse department is relatively small (I heard about 18-20 persons).

But Muse is not dead, neither is Freeway, they’re just discontinued. My car isn’t build either for 10 years now but I’m still driving in it. I’m still using Freeway, I can use Muse for several years, But I would like to have a stable solution for my clients though without fearing to have to build their sites over again after a while, or forced to get alternatives that are too expensive (Webydo $75,-/mo, Webflow $16 - $42 /mo).

The Muse market is great and a lot of companies will find an adequate solution for their loyal customers Perhaps will in the meantime Freeway 8 see its sunrise. It would be perfect timing…

My 2 cts. Andries

2018-03-27 11:03 GMT+02:00 JDW <[email protected]>:

For what it’s worth, I am not mocking you and certainly not Hoffkids, with whom I have exchanged a number of emails privately. I know he was very impressed with MUSE from the get-go because he wrote to tell me so.

Software is useful, but it is not a human being. And while some may think I was mocking them by mocking a piece of mere software, that too would be incorrect. It is unfortunate for you MUSE users, I will agree. And that’s precisely why I’d either like to see a new, fabulously useful version of Freeway that can help me create responsive websites with tremendous ease, OR when Blocs matures to the point I find it useful, I could possibly go with that (no subscription required).

So even though I still use Freeway Pro 7 even to this very day, I have my eyes open on other web design apps. I am not a full time web designer. I merely design and maintain websites for my company. So my needs are quite different than many who visit this forum.

—James Wages

Hoffkids

28 Mar 2018, 1:43 am

Beautifully written and said.

I plan on staying with Muse for quite some time and without paying monthly (James will love this), it is even better for me for a long time!

My new site is coming along so well in Muse.

Barry Hoffman Hoffkids

Long Island, New York, USA

MacBook Pro | Yosemite | FW Pro 6.1 (FW user since Dec 2011)

http://www.Hoffkids.com

JDW

28 Mar 2018, 2:34 am

Barry, I read through the Adobe announcement again just now…

http://muse.adobe.com/product-announcement-intl.html

…but I don’t see where it says you can continue using MUSE without a subscription. Can you really end your Adobe subscription and keep using MUSE forever? If not, it seems rather silly to maintain an Adobe subscription only to use MUSE, a now discontinued product. And while I understand what Andries said, the big difference between discontinued Freeway and discontinued MUSE is that you can keep using Freeway without paying anything monthly.

—James Wages

Hoffkids

28 Mar 2018, 2:49 am

Hi James,

Nice to hear from you. From my new and limited understanding (and others following here can add), when the time comes that Muse is unsupported (right now it still is until 2019 I think), the program does not stop working.

You can still use it and if you are uploading to an FTP (not Adobe BC) then all will still work perfectly as is.

Of course as time goes on there is no help/support for any issues and as browsers, etc develop one might find it to me dated (possibly) , etc.

So, in short, many users pay monthly as they are part of Adobe CC with many other programs. I just use Muse at $16 per mo. I do believe I can stop that now (maybe not until 2019, unsure) and then I still will have the program with no payments!.

also have you seen this????????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-yA09jbvbY

Barry

Long Island, New York, USA

MacBook Pro | Yosemite | FW Pro 6.1 (FW user since Dec 2011)

http://www.Hoffkids.com

JDW

28 Mar 2018, 2:57 am

Hi Barry,

Webflow seems a natural fit for MUSE users accustomed to subscriptions, but for those of us who eschew subscriptions and who need to create more than 1 website, any excitement generated by the power of Webflow will soon fade…

https://webflow.com/pricing/designer-plans

If someone does web design for living, perhaps a subscription makes sense. But if you have only a couple websites that need infrequent changes, a subscription is a money losing proposition.

—James Wages

FreewayPro_User

28 Mar 2018, 5:45 am

On 26 Mar 2018, 2:49 am, Hoffkids wrote:

I just use Muse at $16 per mo. I do believe I can stop that now (maybe not until 2019, unsure) and then I still will have the program with no payments!

That’s not how the CC subscription based apps, or CC offerings from Adobe work.

No pay = no play.

I think you are mistaken, please direct me to some official Adobe info on this if you believe otherwise.

Andries Kuipers

28 Mar 2018, 7:25 am

If anyone is tired of paying a monthly fee or has a populair program that’s discontinued: write me a personal message and i can help you….

2018-03-28 7:45 GMT+02:00 FreewayPro_User <[email protected]>:

On 26 Mar 2018, 2:49 am, Hoffkids wrote:

I just use Muse at $16 per mo. I do believe I can stop that now (maybe not until 2019, unsure) and then I still will have the program with no payments!

That’s not how the CC subscription based apps, or CC offerings from Adobe work.

No pay = no play.

I think you are mistaken, please direct me to some official Adobe info on this if you believe otherwise.

Andries Kuipers

28 Mar 2018, 7:38 am

Furthermore… the Webflow solution (Musegrid) is also not a one pay play, the solution that Musetheme offers with their brand new ‘Without Coding - WC’ and the use of Architect within it (based on Duda) looks great, but if you want to use its full potential there will be a monthly subscription too for using its cloudbased software and server capabilities.

Anyone who can wait on Freeway 8, while using Freeway 7.x or reasonable priced alternatives meanwhile, is perhaps better off. If you have business that needs to continue and update say weekly or monthly, make a good choice that gives you the best workaround and investment for now and in the next couple of years.

Suddenly there can be a new star at the firmament who’s shaking the cards all over…(like Elementor for Wordpress), that’s how the webmarket seems to work nowadays.

Andries

2018-03-28 9:24 GMT+02:00 <[email protected]>:

If anyone is tired of paying a monthly fee or has a populair program that’s discontinued: write me a personal message and i can help you….

2018-03-28 7:45 GMT+02:00 FreewayPro_User <[email protected]>:

On 26 Mar 2018, 2:49 am, Hoffkids wrote:

I just use Muse at $16 per mo. I do believe I can stop that now (maybe not until 2019, unsure) and then I still will have the program with no payments!

That’s not how the CC subscription based apps, or CC offerings from Adobe work.

No pay = no play.

I think you are mistaken, please direct me to some official Adobe info on this if you believe otherwise.

FreewayPro_User

28 Mar 2018, 7:39 am

^ ?

Andries Kuipers

28 Mar 2018, 8:15 am

Sorry I don’t puzzle….

2018-03-28 9:39 GMT+02:00 FreewayPro_User <[email protected]>:

^ ?

JDW

28 Mar 2018, 8:29 am

Andries means that anyone who doesn’t want to pay for a subscription or who doesn’t want to deal with discontinued software need only pay him to do your web design jobs. :-)

Andries Kuipers

28 Mar 2018, 8:43 am

And no, that is not what Andries was saying….

2018-03-28 10:29 GMT+02:00 JDW <[email protected]>:

Andries means that anyone who doesn’t want to pay for a subscription or who doesn’t want to deal with discontinued software need only pay him to do your web design jobs. :-)

JDW

28 Mar 2018, 8:47 am

Oh, sorry.

So what Andries is saying, since he won’t explain himself, and since we must take wild and crazy guesses is this…

“If you don’t like subscriptions and hate using software that is discontinued, send him your web projects and he will create them FREE OF CHARGE!”

—James Wages

Andries Kuipers

28 Mar 2018, 8:57 am

Is it really so difficult to read well?

2018-03-28 10:47 GMT+02:00 JDW <[email protected]>:

Oh, sorry.

So what Andries is saying, since he won’t explain himself, and since we must take wild and crazy guesses is this…

“If you don’t like subscriptions and hate using software that is discontinued, send him your web projects and he will create them FREE OF CHARGE!”

—James Wages

JDW

28 Mar 2018, 9:08 am

It’s abundantly clear. You wrote this…

“write me a personal message and i can help you….”

But you did not specify precisely HOW you could help people who write to you, hence the confusion.

Details! DETAILS!

:-)

—James Wages

Andries Kuipers

28 Mar 2018, 9:24 am

Finally… ;-)

“write me a personal message…” Seems chrystal clear to me I think?

It’s for those people who are seriously making business with Muse like Barry Hoffkids. Not for those who stick with Freeway and just maintain a few sites a month.

2018-03-28 11:08 GMT+02:00 JDW <[email protected]>:

It’s abundantly clear. You wrote this…

“write me a personal message and i can help you….”

But you did not specify precisely HOW you could help people who write to you, hence the confusion.

Details! DETAILS!

:-)

—James Wages

Andries Kuipers

28 Mar 2018, 9:25 am

It’s after all a Freeway Talk here ;-)

2018-03-28 11:24 GMT+02:00 <[email protected]>:

Finally… ;-)

“write me a personal message…” Seems chrystal clear to me I think?

It’s for those people who are seriously making business with Muse like Barry Hoffkids. Not for those who stick with Freeway and just maintain a few sites a month.

2018-03-28 11:08 GMT+02:00 JDW <[email protected]>:

It’s abundantly clear. You wrote this…

“write me a personal message and i can help you….”

But you did not specify precisely HOW you could help people who write to you, hence the confusion.

Details! DETAILS!

:-)

—James Wages

Hoffkids

28 Mar 2018, 10:12 am

An experienced myself user jyst wrote me…

i stopped my payment 2 days ago and it’s still working. no, it will be free from now on

Long Island, New York, USA

MacBook Pro | Yosemite | FW Pro 6.1 (FW user since Dec 2011)

http://www.Hoffkids.com

JDW

28 Mar 2018, 10:15 am

Barry, give it just over 30 days. I believe Adobe gives 1 month as a grace period. After that, the software will likely stop working.

Hoffkids

28 Mar 2018, 10:24 am

I am looking into.

It may be not what you think. Because they pulled plug, many feel and I saw some things How it will continue to work even for years. Whether you still are paying… I’m looking into. My thoughts are.. One will not have to. Stay tuned.. Barry

Long Island, New York, USA

MacBook Pro | Yosemite | FW Pro 6.1 (FW user since Dec 2011)

http://www.Hoffkids.com

FreewayPro_User

28 Mar 2018, 1:03 pm

As JDW stated the apps phone home to ensure the payment cycle is fulfilled within each 30 days period.

That would be a surprise and non-typical gesture by Adobe since the onset of releasing the CC. To allow Muse use or any app, without customers needing to continue paying, is contrary to whole CC model and structure.

If you have the full CC plan then its included anyway, but not for a single app Muse user. Intrigued what you discover Barry.

FreewayPro_User

28 Mar 2018, 1:59 pm

https://forums.adobe.com/message/10275614#10275614

“You can cancel your subscription by contacting Customer Care. After you cancel your subscription, you will no longer be able to use Adobe Muse.”

^ Adobe Employee

FreewayPro_User

28 Mar 2018, 3:03 pm

I was hoping @steve farber would return with his thoughts about Muse now since the EOL announcement.

On 5 Dec 2017, steve farber wrote:

• MUSE. I purchased it and it is the answer I have been looking for. No more searching for me. Muse is it. 

• Your opposition to subscriptions is baseless. Look at what has happened to all of us loyal non-subscription Freeway users! We are rudderless, searching for a new way. There is no safety there.

• For me the time wasted piddling around trying to find a replacement is far more costly than the monthly fee for Muse. And I am pretty certain Adobe isn’t going the way of softpress any time soon.

• I simply posted my recommendations about Muse for those who, like me, were in need of an alternative while the web design world passed us by like we were standing still.

• And this way you are always using the most up-to-date version by a great software company. 

Some of those did not prove to be true.

Hoffkids

31 Mar 2018, 8:59 pm

Does anyone know if NOrm from Blocs is still around or what is up? I emailed him and it came back as address not found

[email protected]

thanks

Barry

Long Island, New York, USA

MacBook Pro | Yosemite | FW Pro 6.1 (FW user since Dec 2011)

http://www.Hoffkids.com

FreewayPro_User

31 Mar 2018, 9:51 pm

Yes he is still around.

I let him know you are wanting to speak with him and referenced this thread. So give him a little time I am sure he will respond.

Hoffkids

31 Mar 2018, 9:52 pm

Thanks.

Long Island, New York, USA

MacBook Pro | Yosemite | FW Pro 6.1 (FW user since Dec 2011)

http://www.Hoffkids.com

JDW

31 Mar 2018, 10:28 pm

Barry, you can find Norm in the Blocs forum. I post there from time to time in hopes of seeing my Blocs wishlist fulfilled; namely, site wide search and responsive tables (for tabular data).

James Wages

Norm

1 Apr 2018, 7:54 am

Hey Hoffkids,

I’m still here, working relentlessly on Blocs. Some email addresses have been temporarily disabled due to insanely high spamming. So sorry for the confusion.

Come join the Blocs forum and DM me with any questions.

cosjr

4 Apr 2018, 10:01 am

The switch from FW to Rapidweaver with Foundation has been the best thing I’ve done. https://foundationstacks.com

Oleg Dudko

18 Apr 2019, 12:37 pm

A year ago Adobe Muse was discontinued. So how about a software tool which will stop you from drawing mockups at all, when working is similar to using Adobe products? Here’s the real story: https://nicepage.com/blog/detail/29373/case-study-from-adobe-muse-to-nicepage

Andries Kuipers

18 Apr 2019, 12:41 pm

Thanks Oleg, I’m using Nicepage already and I like it very much!

grtz Andries

Op do 18 apr. 2019 om 14:37 schreef Oleg Dudko <[email protected]>:

A year ago Adobe Muse was discontinued. So how about a software tool which will stop you from drawing mockups at all, when working is similar to using Adobe products? Here’s the real story: https://nicepage.com/blog/detail/29373/case-study-from-adobe-muse-to-nicepage

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Richard van Heukelum

22 Apr 2019, 9:33 am

Not shocked at all … it just was a question of time. I’m sticking with my current guns, while keep using Freeway7 for sideprojects other users ask me to to.

Ontwerpzaam.nl | Papendrecht, The Netherlands

Hardware: 27” iMac i5 3.1GHz / 32GB RAM / 4TB SSHD / 1GB VRAM /

Software : macOS 10.12.6 Sierra / Freeway7 (user since Freeway1)

Has moved on with CoffeeCup Software : Site Designer / Form Designer / Content Slider / Email Designer / Sonar / Website Insight and occasionally Blocs Web Design App. Use CraftCMS.