FreewayTalk

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Jeremy Hughes

31 Oct 2019, 7:30 pm

Xway Talk

Xway Talk is a new discussion list for Xway.

You can join now!

Xway b1 will be released on Tuesday 5th November (see separate announcement).

Jeremy

Jeremy Hughes

31 Oct 2019, 7:31 pm

Sorry - the link for Xway Talk is:

https://softpress.groups.io/g/xway-talk

Jeremy

Gordon Low

31 Oct 2019, 7:41 pm

Any reason why the Xway discussion isn’t part of the familiar Freewaytalk forum ?

Gordon

Jeremy Hughes

31 Oct 2019, 7:50 pm

Any reason why the Xway discussion isn’t part of the familiar Freewaytalk forum ?

Yes.

The familiar Freeway-Talk forum is quite old, and it has issues that we have been unable to resolve:

  1. Some people are unable to post messages. Their messages might (or might not) arrive via email, but they aren’t displayed in the forum.

  2. Freeway-Talk messages that do get sent via email are frequently identified as spam (I have to regularly check my spam folder).

Freeway Talk will continue to exist, but we wanted to make a new start with Xway Talk.

Jeremy

Marcus Do Carmo

31 Oct 2019, 7:51 pm

Hi Jeremy.

Good to know about November 5th!! Very good news!! I also have a question: Do I need to choose “join the group” or just “login” using the same info we use for Freewaytak?

Thanks, Jeremy! Marcus

Miami, Florida

iMac 27” - Mac OS 10.14.6 - Freeway Pro 7

http://www.plusartgraphics.com

Jeremy Hughes

31 Oct 2019, 8:04 pm

Do I need to choose “join the group” or just “login” using the same info we use for Freewaytak?

You need to join the new group.

Jeremy

Jeremy Hughes

31 Oct 2019, 8:21 pm

Anyone can view Xway Talk messages without joining - but you need to join in order to post.

There are also various options: you can choose whether you want to receive emails, or email digests, or email notifications, or not receive any emails.

Jeremy

Marcus Do Carmo

31 Oct 2019, 10:44 pm

Thanks Jeremy!

Can’t wait for Nov 5th…

Marcus

On 31 Oct 2019, 8:04 pm, Jeremy Hughes wrote:

Do I need to choose “join the group” or just “login” using the same info we use for Freewaytak?

You need to join the new group.

Jeremy

Miami, Florida

iMac 27” - Mac OS 10.14.6 - Freeway Pro 7

http://www.plusartgraphics.com

James

1 Nov 2019, 5:49 pm

Any word on how much it will be? Thanks in advance.

Jeremy Hughes

2 Nov 2019, 3:47 pm

Any word on how much it will be?

b1 will be free.

When we do start charging, I think the price will be similar to what we currently charge for Freeway. There will also be an upgrade price for Freeway users.

Jeremy

Nick Beale

3 Nov 2019, 4:53 pm

“There will also be an upgrade price for Freeway users.”

Good to hear but it would also help to know, pending the eventual ability to import from Freeway Pro, will it be necessary to recreate an existing site from scratch (which I really don’t fancy doing) or will there be an easier way?

Jeremy Hughes

4 Nov 2019, 12:59 pm

The way I would import a site into Xway would be to paste text content into Xway pages and import graphic (and other) content.

But you don’t have to do this: as long as you keep Mojave on a separate partition, or run it within a VM, you can continue using Freeway Pro for existing sites.

Jeremy

Nick Beale

4 Nov 2019, 9:43 pm

“The way I would import a site into Xway would be to paste text content into Xway pages and import graphic (and other) content.”

With around 700 pages to do, that isn’t a terribly attractive prospect. I think I’ll stick with 10.14 until Xway can import from Pro.

Jim Feeney

5 Nov 2019, 2:02 am

On 4 Nov 2019, 9:43 pm, Nick Beale wrote:

“The way I would import a site into Xway would be to paste text content into Xway pages and import graphic (and other) content.”

With around 700 pages to do, that isn’t a terribly attractive prospect. I think I’ll stick with 10.14 until Xway can import from Pro.

Same here, Nick. I have just under 500 pages. The cut-and-paste is not something I want to tackle. Like you, I’ll just keep using Fwy 7 Pro and OSX 14 until a version of Xway comes out that will directly import our Freeway document.

Oregon, USA | 2017 iMac 21.5” | 3.6 GHz Intel Core i7 | 16 GB RAM | OS 10.14 | User since Fwy 3.5 | https://www.jimfeeney.org

Alistair Johnston

18 Nov 2019, 1:37 pm

[Re-posting from Xway b1]

I’ve been a Freeway Pro user for many, many years. I appreciate all the reasons for moving to Xway, but not being able to export my Freeway Pro websites is really frustrating. My websites made extensive use of Freeway actions, responsiveness and other capabilities - it’s not simply a matter of copying over text and graphics.

Can you confirm if you will be developing a tool to export Freeway Pro to Xway? Otherwise I am reluctant to start from scratch with Xway and will investigate competitive products that are more resilient to Mac OS updates.

And furthermore… creating a partition for me will be a separate challenge as I installed my OS with just the one usable partition. Hmm!

waltd

18 Nov 2019, 5:42 pm

If you installed High Sierra or Mojave, then you are on APFS (Apple File System) and making partitions and such is SO MUCH SIMPLER than you may recall from the days of HFS and HFS+. Don’t let that slow you down.

Walter

On Nov 18, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Alistair Johnston <[email protected]> wrote:

And furthermore… creating a partition for me will be a separate challenge as I installed my OS with just the one usable partition. Hmm!

Freeway user since 1997

http://www.walterdavisstudio.com

Joe Muscara

20 Nov 2019, 11:40 am

We actually discussed making partitions on APFS in the thread linked below. It’s a pretty slick process.

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/176537#m_176623

Jeremy Hughes

22 Nov 2019, 2:23 pm

Hi Alistair,

Can you confirm if you will be developing a tool to export Freeway Pro to Xway?

We are planning to do that, but there are other things we need to do first.

Otherwise I am reluctant to start from scratch with Xway and will investigate competitive products that are more resilient to Mac OS updates.

Xway should be resilient to macOS updates.

The problem with Freeway is quite specific: Freeway is a 32-bit application and uses macOS (Carbon) APIs that Apple have abandoned. Carbon and Cocoa were two APIs that Apple introduced with macOS X. Developers whose applications ran on earlier versions of macOS were encouraged to use Carbon as a way of converting their programs to run on macOS X. Converting a Carbon program to a Cocoa program, without rewriting it from scratch, is a difficult process (the APIs are very different).

We’re not the only developer who has faced this problem. There are a number of 32-bit Carbon applications that have been abandoned, without any replacement.

And furthermore… creating a partition for me will be a separate challenge as I installed my OS with just the one usable partition. Hmm!

As other people have noted, this is actually quite easy!

It’s also worth looking at installing Mojave within a VM (that’s what I plan to do when I upgrade to Catalina). There’s a TidBITS article that explains how to do this:

https://tidbits.com/2019/09/18/moving-to-catalina-keep-your-32-bit-mac-apps-running-with-parallels/

Jeremy

chuckbo

27 Nov 2019, 7:08 pm

I understand that eventually Xway will be able to import my Freeway site. But does “eventually” have a goal of Q1 2019 or 2020 or some unnamed date in the future if/when we have time for it?

I don’t want to upgrade to Catalina, but I have a MacBook with one of the bad keyboards that has to be replaced. My AppleCare runs out in March or April, but to get the new keyboard, Apple’s going to initialize the hard drive and install the latest OS. I think it’s crazy, but that’s their policy, so I’m looking for some guidance. If I have to start over on all of my sites, I’m looking at alternatives like Sparkle, Everweb, and Blocs.

How far down the Product backlog is the import feature? How long is your typical sprint cycle?

Chuck

Joe Muscara

30 Nov 2019, 2:08 pm

On 27 Nov 2019, 7:08 pm, chuckbo wrote:

to get the new keyboard, Apple’s going to initialize the hard drive and install the latest OS. I think it’s crazy, but that’s their policy

I’ve never heard of such a thing. I know Apple tells you to back up your data before your bring in your Mac just in case, but I’ve never heard of them initializing internal drives when doing a repair. Maybe they’re replacing the entire computer so you’re getting a new empty drive and that’s going to come with the new macOS installed? That seems more likely to me.

Anyway, instead of trying to use Xway and hoping to get the import feature soon, or switching to another app, the solution for you is easier. You have two options, both of which will let you continue to use Freeway Pro 7. One, use a VM to run Mojave on that Mac, as Jeremy described above.

It’s also worth looking at installing Mojave within a VM (that’s what I plan to do when I upgrade to Catalina). There’s a TidBITS article that explains how to do this:

https://tidbits.com/2019/09/18/moving-to-catalina-keep-your-32-bit-mac-apps-running-with-parallels/

Or, create a bootable volume for Mojave. Note that if Apple actually does give you a new Mac that doesn’t run Mojave at all because it initially shipped after Catalina shipped, this will not work. I’m 99% sure if they give you the exact same model you have but just a new unit it should be fine.

We actually discussed making partitions on APFS in the thread linked below. It’s a pretty slick process.

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/176537#m_176623

chuckbo

30 Nov 2019, 3:17 pm

You say you’ve never heard of such a thing … until now, they’ve replaced the keyboard twice so far (and just replaced it with the same faulty model) and both times wiped the hard drive. And it was the same machine except for the keyboard. But they don’t believe me that it’s a hardware issue until they prove to themselves that it isn’t a software issue.

You deflected from the actual question, though I know that you aren’t in a position to know the real answer.

Joe Muscara

1 Dec 2019, 1:46 pm

On 30 Nov 2019, 3:17 pm, chuckbo wrote:

You deflected from the actual question, though I know that you aren’t in a position to know the real answer.

Deflected? No, I gave you options for now, trying to help you. In fact, running Freeway Pro 7 in Mojave is what Softpress themselves has been recommending to us until Xway is what we need it to be. No one, especially them, has suggested Xway is anywhere close to that, and software development is such a thing that even if Softpress had any specific date or period for the ability to import that doesn’t mean they’re close enough to know if that might be true. As Jeremy said above regarding importing older sites, there are other things they need to do first.

Sorry that Apple has been initializing your hard drive and sorry for wasting your time by answering you. Twice. I hope you had a good Thanksgiving holiday.

chuckbo

1 Dec 2019, 2:43 pm

Thank you.

I’m not really trying to be critical. I’m trying to add to the body of information that the Product Owner will use to rank features (if this is being run as an agile project).

Joe Muscara

1 Dec 2019, 5:46 pm

On 1 Dec 2019, 2:43 pm, chuckbo wrote:

Thank you.

I’m not really trying to be critical. I’m trying to add to the body of information that the Product Owner will use to rank features (if this is being run as an agile project).

Gotcha. I’m sure the desirability and priority of this feature is high, but the order is low. Xway will have to be able to do a bunch of things first so that when you import a FW file, you won’t lose much, if anything.

BTW, did I see you are in Fort Bend County?

Marcus Do Carmo

1 Dec 2019, 6:42 pm

Hi Joe thanks for adding more knowledge to this group. I’m pretty sure that Jeremy and all Softpress team are working hard to make Xway be “the new way”, however I thought Jeremy mentioned that importing FW documents would be a priority expected already for the first “paid” version of Xway.

I believe I’m not the only one who still use and need Freeway to work with on a daily basis. I am right now working in new websites with FW, but being realistic, I’m afraid that if importing FW documents will be a secondary thing for a dust or unknown future, some of us would think twice on that. I love FW and need it to work and truly hope Xway will take this place soon.

Best Marcus

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Joe Muscara <[email protected]> wrote: 

On 1 Dec 2019, 2:43 pm, chuckbo wrote:

Thank you.

I’m not really trying to be critical. I’m trying to add to the body of information that the Product Owner will use to rank features (if this is being run as an agile project).

Gotcha. I’m sure the desirability and priority of this feature is high, but the order is low. Xway will have to be able to do a bunch of things first so that when you import a FW file, you won’t lose much, if anything.

BTW, did I see you are in Fort Bend County?

Miami, Florida

iMac 27” - Mac OS 10.14.6 - Freeway Pro 7

http://www.plusartgraphics.com

Marcus Do Carmo

1 Dec 2019, 7:00 pm

If it would take longer than we are expecting, (forgive me for my ignorance) wouldn’t be possible to have a FW plug-in or something to open it in Catalina?

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Plus Art Info <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Joe thanks for adding more knowledge to this group. I’m pretty sure that Jeremy and all Softpress team are working hard to make Xway be “the new way”, however I thought Jeremy mentioned that importing FW documents would be a priority expected already for the first “paid” version of Xway.

I believe I’m not the only one who still use and need Freeway to work with on a daily basis. I am right now working in new websites with FW, but being realistic, I’m afraid that if importing FW documents will be a secondary thing for a dust or unknown future, some of us would think twice on that. I love FW and need it to work and truly hope Xway will take this place soon.

Best Marcus

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Joe Muscara <[email protected]> wrote: 

On 1 Dec 2019, 2:43 pm, chuckbo wrote:

Thank you.

I’m not really trying to be critical. I’m trying to add to the body of information that the Product Owner will use to rank features (if this is being run as an agile project).

Gotcha. I’m sure the desirability and priority of this feature is high, but the order is low. Xway will have to be able to do a bunch of things first so that when you import a FW file, you won’t lose much, if anything.

BTW, did I see you are in Fort Bend County?

Miami, Florida

iMac 27” - Mac OS 10.14.6 - Freeway Pro 7

http://www.plusartgraphics.com

waltd

2 Dec 2019, 12:26 am

As Jeremy has explained over and over here, Catalina requires that all applications run in 64-bit mode. Freeway is and has always been a 32-bit application, through and through. The decision that was taken was to rewrite, rather than try to update every part of the existing application to run in 64-bit mode.

Almost all complex applications for any operating system are built on frameworks, which are packages of reusable code libraries, provided by the OS developer. Freeway is built on a framework called MacApp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacApp, which was written (and retired) by Apple many years ago. It was written long before 64-bit was an idea, let alone before it was a requirement or even a practical possibility. So the only “plug-in” possible would be to replace all of MacApp, and then re-write every call into and out of MacApp (in the Freeway code) to make it 64-bit safe.

The way to ensure that you can still run Freeway on modern (Catalina or later) versions of MacOS is to download the Mojave installer, and use a virtualization system like VMWare Fusion (if your hardware is brand-new, and won’t boot Mojave) or dual-boot from a partition (if your hardware supports Mojave) to install it. Then you would simply start Fusion (if that’s your approach) and run Mojave as a “guest” of Catalina, and run Freeway in that virtual machine, or you would hold down the Option key at restart and choose Mojave instead of Catalina and work that way.

Both are viable options and do-able right now, without taking any further time from Jeremy to fix the past while he simultaneously builds the future.

Walter

On Dec 1, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Plus Art Info <[email protected]> wrote:

If it would take longer than we are expecting, (forgive me for my ignorance) wouldn’t be possible to have a FW plug-in or something to open it in Catalina?

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Plus Art Info <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Joe thanks for adding more knowledge to this group. I’m pretty sure that Jeremy and all Softpress team are working hard to make Xway be “the new way”, however I thought Jeremy mentioned that importing FW documents would be a priority expected already for the first “paid” version of Xway.

I believe I’m not the only one who still use and need Freeway to work with on a daily basis. I am right now working in new websites with FW, but being realistic, I’m afraid that if importing FW documents will be a secondary thing for a dust or unknown future, some of us would think twice on that. I love FW and need it to work and truly hope Xway will take this place soon.

Best Marcus

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Joe Muscara <[email protected]> wrote: 

On 1 Dec 2019, 2:43 pm, chuckbo wrote:

Thank you.

I’m not really trying to be critical. I’m trying to add to the body of information that the Product Owner will use to rank features (if this is being run as an agile project).

Gotcha. I’m sure the desirability and priority of this feature is high, but the order is low. Xway will have to be able to do a bunch of things first so that when you import a FW file, you won’t lose much, if anything.

BTW, did I see you are in Fort Bend County?

Freeway user since 1997

http://www.walterdavisstudio.com

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Marcus Do Carmo

2 Dec 2019, 6:47 am

Hi Walter. Thanks! That’s why I said in advance (forgive me for my ignorance) when I mentioned the plug-in thing haha.

My really concern was really about Xway to be able to import FW files, in the next future paid version of Xway. That would be important for me.

Marcus

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2019, at 7:26 PM, Walter Lee Davis <[email protected]> wrote:

As Jeremy has explained over and over here, Catalina requires that all applications run in 64-bit mode. Freeway is and has always been a 32-bit application, through and through. The decision that was taken was to rewrite, rather than try to update every part of the existing application to run in 64-bit mode.

Almost all complex applications for any operating system are built on frameworks, which are packages of reusable code libraries, provided by the OS developer. Freeway is built on a framework called MacApp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacApp, which was written (and retired) by Apple many years ago. It was written long before 64-bit was an idea, let alone before it was a requirement or even a practical possibility. So the only “plug-in” possible would be to replace all of MacApp, and then re-write every call into and out of MacApp (in the Freeway code) to make it 64-bit safe.

The way to ensure that you can still run Freeway on modern (Catalina or later) versions of MacOS is to download the Mojave installer, and use a virtualization system like VMWare Fusion (if your hardware is brand-new, and won’t boot Mojave) or dual-boot from a partition (if your hardware supports Mojave) to install it. Then you would simply start Fusion (if that’s your approach) and run Mojave as a “guest” of Catalina, and run Freeway in that virtual machine, or you would hold down the Option key at restart and choose Mojave instead of Catalina and work that way.

Both are viable options and do-able right now, without taking any further time from Jeremy to fix the past while he simultaneously builds the future.

Walter

On Dec 1, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Plus Art Info <[email protected]> wrote:

If it would take longer than we are expecting, (forgive me for my ignorance) wouldn’t be possible to have a FW plug-in or something to open it in Catalina?

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Plus Art Info <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Joe thanks for adding more knowledge to this group. I’m pretty sure that Jeremy and all Softpress team are working hard to make Xway be “the new way”, however I thought Jeremy mentioned that importing FW documents would be a priority expected already for the first “paid” version of Xway.

I believe I’m not the only one who still use and need Freeway to work with on a daily basis. I am right now working in new websites with FW, but being realistic, I’m afraid that if importing FW documents will be a secondary thing for a dust or unknown future, some of us would think twice on that. I love FW and need it to work and truly hope Xway will take this place soon.

Best Marcus

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Joe Muscara <[email protected]> wrote: 

On 1 Dec 2019, 2:43 pm, chuckbo wrote:

Thank you.

I’m not really trying to be critical. I’m trying to add to the body of information that the Product Owner will use to rank features (if this is being run as an agile project).

Gotcha. I’m sure the desirability and priority of this feature is high, but the order is low. Xway will have to be able to do a bunch of things first so that when you import a FW file, you won’t lose much, if anything.

BTW, did I see you are in Fort Bend County?

Miami, Florida

iMac 27” - Mac OS 10.14.6 - Freeway Pro 7

http://www.plusartgraphics.com